BIAB Electric element

[Beersnob]

Hello Brewers, I'm a BIAB brewer and I use a 70 litre kettle. I would like to convert it from LPG as the heating source to electric. I'm looking at converting it to recerculating mash system so that the strike water stays at a constant temperature by using a sensor hooked up to a PID digital temperature controller and of course a pump. The liquid is taken from the ball valve down at the bottom. The sensor is located in the lid where the recerculating liquid constantly flows past it and sparges over the grain bag for the full mash time required. My question is what's the most powerful element that our house hold power supply can handle? I can get a 5500 watt element that runs on 240V, is this too much? I usually need to bring around 50 litres to boil because I brew double batches? Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks in advance.

 

[stilvia]

My Camco 5500w element uses about 25a of power. I have an industrial 32a single phase socket installed outside. It holds 45L to a vigorous boil at only 60% duty.

 

[flocculated]

"My question is what's the most powerful element that our house hold power supply can handle?"

Unless you have a higher powered socket installed, as stilvia has, most Aussie home circuits are rated to just 10 amps, which will give you a maximum of 2400 watts.

 

[TwoCrows]

You (could) install two 2400 watt elements and power them from two separate power sources.

I am not an electrician. This is just a idea.

 

[sp0rk]

Calling Stu to chastise people for playing with 240V without knowing what they're doing, please check in Stu

 

[GibboQLD]

You (could) install two 2400 watt elements and power them from two separate power sources.

You'd need to make sure they're on separate circuits, since I'm pretty sure the current-carrying capacity of the 2.5mm² 2C+E used for GPOs is ~20A (from memory, assuming TPS) and there's bound to be other stuff plugged in.

It'd be way safer & easier to just get a dedicated circuit put in, and since you're going to the effort, to have the cabling sized for much more than what you think you might need -- after all, when have you ever heard anyone say "****, I wish could plug less stuff into my brewery circuit."?

 

[sp0rk]

You'd need to make sure they're on separate circuits, since I'm pretty sure the current-carrying capacity of the 2.5mm² 2C+E used for GPOs is ~20A (from memory, assuming TPS) and there's bound to be other stuff plugged in.

It'd be way safer & easier to just get a dedicated circuit put in, and since you're going to the effort, to have the cabling sized for much more than what you think you might need -- after all, when have you ever heard anyone say "****, I wish could plug less stuff into my brewery circuit."?

Sadly some of us rent and can't have a dedicated circuit put in

 

[TwoCrows]

Yes electrical is extremely dangerous and a good sparky is needed to do all repairs.

If you buy two units that are wired and are just plug and play. No electrician is needed.
My shed is on a separate breaker to the house power points, a lead from the house and one from the shed , job done.

 

[hairydog]

Hi Beersnob,

I run a recirc BIAB like your wanting to do but i run 23l batches so i run from 10amp garage power circuit.You definately need a dedicated circuit to run your 4.8-5.5KW
element probably a 32a circuit brealer with 4mm cable will keep all above board and will not be overly priced in comparison to a 2.5mm cable with 20a circuit
breaker.Additional cost for a PID controller and a SSR to drive the element mounted inside a junction box with it hardwired to a 20-25a outlet mounted to the j-box,
allowing the element to be unplugged and kettle can be cleaned easier.The temperature control for mash is spot on as i have a PID with 4-20ma control output to drive
a SSR with a 25amp rating this pulses the power to the element when set point is reached at a slower rate giving full analog control of your element.The recirc ensures an even
temperature throughout the mash.It helps if you know a sparky to keep costs down.

 

[hobospy]

I'm looking into doing something similar and was under the impression that you were supposed to take the PID measurement at the tap as this is where the wort will be hottest. Effectively you don't want to overheat your wort due to heat loss when transferring from the tap to the lid, obviously this is minimal.

 

[hairydog]

I have my temp probe mounted on my return of wort line located at the top of mash there is minimal heat loss from pump and lines,i also check
mash temprature with a thermopen as a second check.I run a type of stainless steel line to near the bottom of the bag so wort enters grain evenly,
i still give mash a stir every 20min.

 

[Coldspace]

Most houses,units have at least 2 seperate 20amp/16amp power circuits running around. These then feed 10 amp points. Look at your switch board, see if there are 2. Probally one runs the kitchen/ living. Then one runs bathroom/beds. At least that's how I wire up houses.

Now if there is, I would get 2 x 2.4 kW elements, run one of each off these circuits with extension leads. No prob then getting 50 ltr boiling.
Or, spend coin get a bigger circuit installed and run bigger element.

Cheers

 

[Camo6]

Cable needs to be derated depending on how it's installed. A cable buried, in conduit, will handle a lot more current than one running through insulation. Get a sparky to check it out and recommend. Beats setting your house on fire.
Running two 2400W elements off two separate 16A circuits is a viable option, worked for me, and if you do get a dedicated 32A circuit this will safely power both elements.

 

[GibboQLD]

I'm pretty sure the current-carrying capacity of the 2.5mm² 2C+E used for GPOs is ~20A (from memory, assuming TPS)

Cable needs to be derated depending on how it's installed. A cable buried, in conduit, will handle a lot more current than one running through insulation.

Looked up AS/NZS 3008 -- 2.5mm² 2C+E TPS is indeed rated to 20A where partially surrounded by thermal insulation (like would happen when installed in the average house), or 30A where buried direct/in an underground conduit.

You'll probably find a lot of Electricians tend to be pretty conservative, and suggest the next largest cable size anyway.







Disclaimer: I'm an Electrical Designer and not an Electrician, so do your own research, I accept no responsibility, blah blah...

 

[Gibbo411]

Sparky here, yes 2.5mm is the cable used mostly for 20A general power circuits. As specified above the conditions and total circuit length needs to be considered.

GibboQLD is also correct that sparkies are conservative when installing new circuits.

In your situation a 32A circuit on 4mm will be fine. If the outlet is a long distance from the switchboard then 6mm will be better to avoid voltage drop.

 

[Beersnob]

Out of town for a few weeks sorry everyone. Thanks for all your advice. after reading all of them I think I might consider getting a dedicated line installed. My switchboard is just outside my garage on the other side of the wall from where I brew. So wouldn't have to go a long distance. But I am wondering if I can tap into my oven circuit? I seem to remember I needed to get that all re wired from switchboard to oven a couple of years ago with thicker wire to run 32amps ?? Is this at all possible to utilise?

this is where i got my inspiration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjbSfih9TuY

 

[spog]

Cable needs to be derated depending on how it's installed. A cable buried, in conduit, will handle a lot more current than one running through insulation. Get a sparky to check it out and recommend. Beats setting your house on fire.
Running two 2400W elements off two separate 16A circuits is a viable option, worked for me, and if you do get a dedicated 32A circuit this will safely power both elements.

OT,your comment about wiring through insulation is spot on.
I'm a chippy/ builder by trade and I get very ****** when a sparky " runs" cables under insulation,the amount of times I have ripped cables out from under insulation,left them in a mess and told the sparky to do it right......