Best way to improve. BIAB.No chill.

[Nick667]

I have been AG brewing for a couple of years now with mixed results using boil in a bag, not chilling and using dry yeasts ( US-05 ect ). Got temp control. I don't use a cube and cover the boil pot with a x of plastic wrap, the lid and a couple of litres of water in a jug. Seems to work quite well. Next day I use a sanitized jug too transfer ( including trub ) to FV. Re-hydrate yeast and have never had a problem with fermentation. Also have good mash temp control. Bottle with sugar. Good sanitisation.
But I got back into home brewing to make a better product and I really want to up the game a bit if poss.
Can anyone give me some advice on a couple of things;
Is it worth getting the wort off the trub and will this make a lot of difference using a syphon or tap.
Will a wort chiller be worth the investment. I know it will make hop additions more accurate.
Or any other way that will improve my beer.
Thanks for any advice.

 

[manticle]

Before you go about introducing new methods and new equipment, identify which aspects of your beer you want to improve.

 

[contrarian]

That advice is spot on. What changes might help will depend on what elements of your beer you want to improve and what your current processes are.

What is it about your beer that you aren't happy with at the moment?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I would first refine your methods, then work out what needs to be changed

 

[S.E]

[SIZE=11pt]I would first work out what needs to be changed, and then refine your methods.[/SIZE]

 

[Black Devil Dog]

I would change your methods.

 

[wobbly]

Can anyone give me some advice on a couple of things;
Is it worth getting the wort off the trub and will this make a lot of difference using a syphon or tap.
Will a wort chiller be worth the investment. I know it will make hop additions more accurate.

The original poster asked for comment/advise on a couple of specific points as above that those that have commented so far have either not read/understood what was being asked or chosen to ignore those questions

Being a single vessel brewer (Braumeister) I'm in the camp that believes you get improvement by getting the wort off the trub/hot break and chilling the wort to below 30C as fast as I can

Wobbly

 

[S.E]

We were just giving our thoughts and opinions. We knew someone would come along with a sensible answer to the actual questions sooner or later.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

You should think about refining your changed methods

 

[manticle]

The original poster asked for comment/advise on a couple of specific points as above that those that have commented so far have either not read/understood what was being asked or chosen to ignore those questions

Being a single vessel brewer (Braumeister) I'm in the camp that believes you get improvement by getting the wort off the trub/hot break and chilling the wort to below 30C as fast as I can

Wobbly

No. I read and understood the questions and I'm pretty sure others did too.

Question remains - what faults is the OP finding and what are they seeking to improve?

Knowing that I might feel qualified to advise whether the issue relates to a night on hot break, hop additions or something else.

 

[Bribie G]

I take it that Boil in the Bag was a slip of the keyboard.
I would recommend getting the beer off the trub into a cube.
Without reigniting any chill vs no chill argument I no chill and have had competition success with beers that have had nothing to hide behind such as Pale Continental Lagers.

 

[Coodgee]

I have been AG brewing for a couple of years now with mixed results using boil in a bag, not chilling and using dry yeasts ( US-05 ect ). Got temp control. I don't use a cube and cover the boil pot with a x of plastic wrap, the lid and a couple of litres of water in a jug. Seems to work quite well. Next day I use a sanitized jug too transfer ( including trub ) to FV. Re-hydrate yeast and have never had a problem with fermentation. Also have good mash temp control. Bottle with sugar. Good sanitisation.
But I got back into home brewing to make a better product and I really want to up the game a bit if poss.
Can anyone give me some advice on a couple of things;
Is it worth getting the wort off the trub and will this make a lot of difference using a syphon or tap.
Will a wort chiller be worth the investment. I know it will make hop additions more accurate.
Or any other way that will improve my beer.
Thanks for any advice.

maybe try using some liquid yeasts and see if you get an improvement. US05 is as good as any yeast when it comes to big hoppy IPAs and APAs but if you are brewing lagers or English beers it might make a difference. If you are into cosmetics then trying to get a crystal clear beer might be fun and you'll impress your mates. I'm drinking a Munich Helles right now brewed with WY2112 and treated with both gelatin and polyclar and it's as brilliantly clear as any commercial lager. and tastes better than any commercial examples I've tried lately too!

 

[Bribie G]

Being in NZ your malts shouldn't be a problem as they are top notch. Similarly your hops.

What batch sizes do you brew? If you are prepared to spend on a chiller, which could run to a couple of hundred dollars depending on the model, you would probably benefit more from upgrading to a more controllable BIAB vessel, either an electric urn or a 60L pot with a tap. That way you can whirlpool if you like and easily get clear wort into the cube.

As posted above, a better match of yeasts could make a lot of difference.

Liquid yeasts are great but I've found your own Mangrove Jack's dried series to be really good as well, for example their UK Dark Ale in porters and brown ales, Burton Union in bitters and Bohemian Lager in lagers.

 

[contrarian]

The original poster asked for comment/advise on a couple of specific points as above that those that have commented so far have either not read/understood what was being asked or chosen to ignore those questions

Being a single vessel brewer (Braumeister) I'm in the camp that believes you get improvement by getting the wort off the trub/hot break and chilling the wort to below 30C as fast as I can

Wobbly

I understood the questions but without knowing the problem there is no point suggesting solutions. Unless the problem is about late hop additions and flavour or aroma chill or no chill will make no difference at all.

Same for chilling in the kettle overnight. There's obvious risks associated with it and it but without knowing what the desired outcome is there's no point suggesting it will give the desired result.

Better beer is a very subjective concept!

 

[Nick667]

Hi guys and thanks so much for your help.
What aspects and methods would you improve?
How would you refine my system, I know it is a bit rough around the edges but I get reasonable beers sometimes.
I brew 24lts and add water during the boil to get full volume quantities. Have been playing around with gypsum and use Koppafloc to clear.
I have trouble to justify using liquid yeasts because of the $20 price tag.
Have tried Mangrove Jack yeasts and found them quite good but they seemed a bit temperature intolerant after bottling and the beer lacked carbonation.
Also c/o this forum I have been giving the wort a 10min protein rest @ 72deg. Now got lots of head sometimes too much.
I do get green apple off flavours at times.
I used to brew kit and kilo for consumption rather than perfection and went back to brewing for something better and I am getting better beer. But when I try a good craft beer at great expense My beer is still home brew in comparison.

 

[manticle]

Green apple might be either incomplete fermentation or unhealthy yeast. Oxidation is a possibility too but I'd look at the first 2.

$20 is a lot for wyeast ($10 - 12 more usual here) but you can split, store and reuse to get maximum value. However the main advantage of liquid is simply the variety - well treated, healthy sufficient yeast should give good beer, whether dry or liquid.
BIAB no chill can and will make excellent quality beer although I'd recommend proper no chill as opposed to kettle standing.

 

[TheWiggman]

Depending on your vessel, yes I would separate the trub. If you're no-chilling (I'm in that crowd) then, if you have a metal pot, install a ball valve at the base with a pickup tube running to the edge of the vessel. Add Brewbrite/Irish moss/whirlfloc/protofloc before flameout. Wait 10 mins, give it a good vortex with a spoon then wait 20-30 mins to settle. If you do it right you'll leave most of the rubbish in a cone at the bottom of the pot. If you don't want a tap, just do as above and use a siphon to the bottom edge similar to above.
Regarding yeast, think about the cost at the end of the day. $20 is a bit ($13-odd in Aus) but you're making 23l. There is a much bigger range and you'd be blown away at the difference yeast can make to a batch. If you're looking to up the ante, seriously consider yeast management. Best investment I've made in beer is the stir plate, O2 and fermentation control. Also liquid yeasts can be split and reused so there can be more economical than dry yeast if you play your cards right.
Speaking of which you say you have temp control. Are you talking about fermentation or brewing wort? If the former, getting acetaldehyde implies you might be fermenting too warm depending on your beer type. If the latter, get temp control for fermenting.

 

[Nick667]

Green apple might be either incomplete fermentation or unhealthy yeast. Oxidation is a possibility too but I'd look at the first 2.

$20 is a lot for wyeast ($10 - 12 more usual here) but you can split, store and reuse to get maximum value. However the main advantage of liquid is simply the variety - well treated, healthy sufficient yeast should give good beer, whether dry or liquid.
BIAB no chill can and will make excellent quality beer although I'd recommend proper no chill as opposed to kettle standing.

Thanks for that, how do I split yeast?
Do you think I am adding to much air when transferring the wort to the fv with my trusty sanitized jug?
I have also been doing a sparge of sorts with 3-4 lts of water @ around 75C. Always careful with the yeast and get good numbers on the hydro at both ends of the fermentation. Getting over 80 efficiency at times but not always.

 

[Nick667]

Depending on your vessel, yes I would separate the trub. If you're no-chilling (I'm in that crowd) then, if you have a metal pot, install a ball valve at the base with a pickup tube running to the edge of the vessel. Add Brewbrite/Irish moss/whirlfloc/protofloc before flameout. Wait 10 mins, give it a good vortex with a spoon then wait 20-30 mins to settle. If you do it right you'll leave most of the rubbish in a cone at the bottom of the pot. If you don't want a tap, just do as above and use a siphon to the bottom edge similar to above.
Regarding yeast, think about the cost at the end of the day. $20 is a bit ($13-odd in Aus) but you're making 23l. There is a much bigger range and you'd be blown away at the difference yeast can make to a batch. If you're looking to up the ante, seriously consider yeast management. Best investment I've made in beer is the stir plate, O2 and fermentation control. Also liquid yeasts can be split and reused so there can be more economical than dry yeast if you play your cards right.
Speaking of which you say you have temp control. Are you talking about fermentation or brewing wort? If the former, getting acetaldehyde implies you might be fermenting too warm depending on your beer type. If the latter, get temp control for fermenting.

That's really helpful thanks.
I have temp control at both ends I even used the stc-1000 to help control mash temp last time but I do use a gas burner to heat and boil.

 

[manticle]

There's some great detailed threads on here about yeast splitting and reuse. Hard for me to link using a phone but use the search function top right and find various threads by wolfy.

Transferring with a jug to fv is not ideal.

You can drill out a pot and fit with weldless tap and silicon hose or siphon from the top.