Best Practice Cleaning Methods

[catcher]

Hi all,

I have been quite frustrated of late, getting 1 out of every 2 batches infected ever so mildly and it's doing my head in. Now I'm using plastic fermenters and I currently have no methods of temp control however the area they are placed in is consistently 20-22 degrees.

So I'd like to ask everyone to give their cleaning methods? What chemicals are you using and when?

Currently I clean with hot water and cloth, then soak and rinse with napisan before soaking with starsan.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

I've had a mate get a swollen no chill cube when cleaning with napisan, was one of my dangerous goods cubes too!!!

I don't think there is enough active ingredient (sodium percarbonate) in there and using more outweighs the cost benefit. If you can get some sodium percarbonate or even better PBW just make up a 5-10L solution with hot water and shake in the sealed fermenter and then soak the fermenter with sealed lid on upside down (eats the krausen ring off, also slightly crack the tap to let gas out!) for a few hours, shake again and soak standing up (back lid off slightly to let gas out). I then with gloves on use a soft sponge to wipe down all inner surfaces of the fermenter, then hot water rinse/shake until rinse water is no longer slippery. Then I use StarSan no rinse sanitizer to coat all insides of the fermenter, remove the tap, disassemble it and give it its own soak in the cleaner, rinse and sanitizer. Also store the air dried fermenter with glad wrap and elastic band for a lid (leave tap plug hole open).

Next time when using simply sanitise again with starsan, add sanitised tap and fill.

 

[mkstalen]

I don't want to jinx myself..

But my regime is:
Soak in home made PWB (previously I used no brand unscented 38% sodium percarbonate, ie napisan)
Rinse out then, hit with StarSan
Then just before using the container sanitise with StarSan again.

 

[technobabble66]

Similar to DJ:
i'd give it a scrub with warm/hot water and a cloth/sponge straight after the FV is drained.
Then soak with Sod Perc & Sod Metasil 3:1 combo (basically homemade PBW) and hot water for a day or three - this basically eats away the krausen and any other (protein-based) residues.
This is then left to dry upside down and sealed until next needed.
Prior to next use, it gets a few 100mLs of Starsan solution swished around in it and left for 5-30mins. This is also flushed through the tap of course. Then in goes the wort!
FWIW, i used to break apart the tap to separately clean and sanitise. However i've found the taps become very hard to turn after a few cleans. I've never had an infection, so i'm probably a little naive and i just don't break apart the taps any more because i find the super tight taps to be super annoying.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

I should add i use homemade PBW also. Its the bomb if you can get the metasilicate!

Also techno, i use my food grade keg kube on the tap inners once they are sanitised ready to assemble. They glide so easily that way and the lube can be kept well away from contact with your beer, not that it has any effect anyway.

Those taps definitely hold crud no matter what you do!

 

[S.E]

Hi all,

I have been quite frustrated of late, getting 1 out of every 2 batches infected ever so mildly and it's doing my head in. Now I'm using plastic fermenters and I currently have no methods of temp control however the area they are placed in is consistently 20-22 degrees.

So I'd like to ask everyone to give their cleaning methods? What chemicals are you using and when?

Currently I clean with hot water and cloth, then soak and rinse with napisan before soaking with starsan.

Caustic is fantastic but hazardous. I described my cleaning method post 40 in this thread .

 

[S.E]

However i've found the taps become very hard to turn after a few cleans. I've never had an infection, so i'm probably a little naive and i just don't break apart the taps any more because i find the super tight taps to be super annoying.

Do you lubricate your taps after pulling them apart? A little Vaseline or keg lube will stop them getting tight.

 

[Dan Pratt]

to share my method :

• post fermentation and transfer I hose out the FV with tap water
• use soft cloth to remove krausen ring, rinse again andn again and again with tap water
• remove tap, disasemble tap, place tap into 60c water and 2g Napisan to soak for 2days - important step!
• air dry FV for 2 days ( if possible get one day of direct sunlight )
• rinse FV with tap water, replace tap and add 1g/L (30g) of Napisan to FV
• add 2litres of boiling water - swirl FV around to dissolve napisan
• add 15lts of hot 60c tap water
• top up with tap water to the brim, overflowing with all the foam
• add to FV - transfer hoses, airlocks, bungs, stirplate magnet, oxygen stone etc etc and place lid on
• let that soak until next brew, usually 2-3days ( sometimes just 24hrs )
• on brew night, when i start the whirlpool - empty the FV of solution and rinse all items including the tap with water
• place all items into a seperate 5lt starsan mix to be sanitized
• replace tap, add 1lt of starsan solution, place lid on and shake it up till it foams and covers the entire inside surface
• leave that to soak for 5mins while I stop WP and prepare the transfer hose
• remove lid, pour our starsan solution, spray rim/thread with starsan and transfer.

I spray starsan like a maniac, on my hands, on the hoses after I touch anything...........

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

You must have no water restrictions or a good free rainwater supply Pratty! Seems like an awful waste of water otherwise. Your cleaning regime uses more water than you do for the actual brew!

 

[Eagleburger]

Now I have fermenter with a full size lid, I just clean krausen ring with garden hose sprayer and then starsan. Cubes, what everyone else does.

 

[Topher]

Now I have fermenter with a full size lid, I just clean krausen ring with garden hose sprayer and then starsan. Cubes, what everyone else does.

No cleaner? Just sanitiser?

 

[Midnight Brew]

Percarb to clean. Starsan to sanitise.

Empty fermenter
Hose krausen ring so loose buildup is removed
Add half a cap of sodium percarbonate (I keep mine in nappysan containers)
Add a kettle of boiling water and disolve
Top up with mains or tank water to soak for 24-48 hours
Drain, dry upside down (an orange milk crate is compulsory or you'll get an infection)

Then when it comes to fermentation time a kettle of boiling water goes in for a rinse then I use starsan at recommended dosage.

 

[TehCrucible]

50% infection rate seems pretty crazy. Maybe you want to walk us through your whole prep/brewday and see if someone can spot where you might be going wrong? To answer your question, I can only echo everyone else in the thread: soak in sodium perc solution, rinse, starsan.

 

[Camo6]

Sounds like you've got a nasty hiding somewhere. I'd be bombing everything (aside from stainless) with a bleach solution. Have you stripped your kettle tap?

 

[Eagleburger]

No cleaner? Just sanitiser?

Correctamondo. Without counting, it is about 12 brews since I used cleaner and no infection.

While certainly important, a clean fermenter is probably the easiest part of brewing sanitation to manage.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

I bottled numerous batches in bottles I simply rinsed in hot water, dried and then sanitised.

The bottles that made it to a year old or more all lost their flavour and were gushers.

Went back to cleaning and bottle brushing all bottles.

 

[catcher]

Definitely some good tips and advice here. I have still a lot to learn. I have done many batches over the years and never really had any infections before now. Not all drums just some are infected so I'll put it down to some or all of the following:

- I removed lids to check on them, so would have got exposed to air.
- Some may have been exposed to some sunlight at some stage accidentally
- We had fluctuating heat issues in the shed (now fixed) so that would have affected them.
- I think my cleaning procedures need to be changed.

Currently I my process is:

1. Wash FV with high pressure cleaner.
2. Wipe out with fresh water and chux
3. Put in some napisan and soak whole drum for 10 mins.
4. Rinse out.
5. Remove seals, lid and tap and soak them in same procedure.
6. Rinse and spray all with starsan, let air dry.
7. Spray with starsan before use


I think I need to start using PBW and/or bleach, as I've lost 6 batches now and it's getting expensive haha.

I was previously using stainless at the brewery I worked at without any issues but now back to plastic it's doing my head in.

 

[technobabble66]

One quick thing i'd point out: Your Step 3 may need some work.
How much Napisan/sod perc are you putting in? I'd put in at least a heaped tablespoon - within reason, you can't really put in too much (other than wasting cash) whereas you can definitely put too little in.
It needs to be hot water - so fill it with hot tap water. (you may already be doing this, but i thought i'd mention it.
Most importantly, you need to let it soak overnight - 12hrs at least. The O3 and alkaline compounds need at least several hours to work fully to dissolve the dirty residues.

Probably the other thing that stands out is the tap.
Are you breaking it apart or just soaking whole?
I know i've said i don't break mine down any more and i'm currently fine; but once you get an infection into the FV, you've gotta take the sanitation to the next level. That means you need to break the tap open to expose everything to the sod perc (again for several hours) and, then later, the starsan. Otherwise just piff it and buy a new one - they're $1-2 from bunnings so i'd probably just get a new one and be done with it.

 

[stux]

I use snap taps on my fermenters. Super easy to break down.

I fill the tap hole with a bung, and then fill the fermenter with PBW, and everything goes into that to soak for at least 24hrs. Even the lid, since it's a bucket style fermenter.

Rinse, and then pour a few L of starsan in, good swish around

 

[catcher]

One quick thing i'd point out: Your Step 3 may need some work.
How much Napisan/sod perc are you putting in? I'd put in at least a heaped tablespoon - within reason, you can't really put in too much (other than wasting cash) whereas you can definitely put too little in.
It needs to be hot water - so fill it with hot tap water. (you may already be doing this, but i thought i'd mention it.
Most importantly, you need to let it soak overnight - 12hrs at least. The O3 and alkaline compounds need at least several hours to work fully to dissolve the dirty residues.

Probably the other thing that stands out is the tap.
Are you breaking it apart or just soaking whole?
I know i've said i don't break mine down any more and i'm currently fine; but once you get an infection into the FV, you've gotta take the sanitation to the next level. That means you need to break the tap open to expose everything to the sod perc (again for several hours) and, then later, the starsan. Otherwise just piff it and buy a new one - they're $1-2 from bunnings so i'd probably just get a new one and be done with it.

Yeah I use a fair bit of napisan but doesn't look like I'm leaving it long enough which explains a lot. I'll give that a crack for sure.

I break taps apart, that's no dramas.