Belgian Wit That Doesn't Look Like A Belgian Wit

[debineko]

Hi All,

Just getting ready to bottle a belgian wit that's been in secondary for a week after a week in primary.

Only problem is it's cleared too well in secondary and now only has ale-grade cloudiness, rather having all that yeast in suspension to reflect the light.

Yeast was cultured from a Unibroue brew (Blanche de Chambly, assuming that they are too small to bother with using a different strain for bottling, as rumoured) and looked healthy enough when pitched (after stepping up to 2lt), but I only used what had settled at the bottom, and I have read that by doing so you are more likely to end up with yeast that likes to flocculate rather than stay in suspension (not sure of the truth of this).

Anyway, at bottling I'm thinking of:
1) Stirring up any trub back into suspension, and/or
2) Adding some (500ml or so) of the same yeast starter that is now getting to the end of 1lt of wort and looks more wit-ish, or
3) Doing nothing because there's nothing to worry about.

Keenest to add some of the yeast starter (if only to see what happens), and I know this won't create bottle bombs, but I don't quite understand why doing this won't create bottle bombs... I mean, you're adding more yeast with sugar and then capping the lot in a bottle. Why isn't this asking for trouble?

My next question would be, is adding yeast starter at bottling going to make any difference to the amount of yeast in suspension? If it will, how much to add?

For reference, the bones of the recipe were 2 cans of Coopers wheat extract, mini-mash with munich and rolled wheat, orange blossom honey (250g) + all the other goodies that go into making this fun brew.

OG 1.050, FG 1.012.

Any comments/advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[Josh]

2) Adding some (500ml or so) of the same yeast starter that is now getting to the end of 1lt of wort and looks more wit-ish,

Keenest to add some of the yeast starter (if only to see what happens), and I know this won't create bottle bombs, but I don't quite understand why doing this won't create bottle bombs... I mean, you're adding more yeast with sugar and then capping the lot in a bottle. Why isn't this asking for trouble?

If the starter has finished, I would expect there not to be anymore fermentable sugar apart from your bottling addition. So I doubt there's a danger of bottle bombs.

My next question would be, is adding yeast starter at bottling going to make any difference to the amount of yeast in suspension? If it will, how much to add?

I thought the haze in a wit is more to do with protein haze than yeast. You could consider adding a small amount of flour to a bottling bucket and bulk prime. I don't know how this would affect the fermentables though. It hasn't been converted so I think you would be alright in that department.

 

[tazman1967]

Belgian Wits IMHO are very hard to do as a kit.
They are best done as an AG beer.. just one of those styles where an AG beer is closer than a kit.
Just my 2C
Cheers
Still should be a nice beer

 

[debineko]

Thanks for your comments guys.

The cans of wheat extract and the 200g or so of munich malt were originally part of a hefe weizen recipe but because the unibroue starter looked good to go I turned it into a Belgian wit. Anyway, the orginal hefe weizen recipe had me steeping the munich which I thought was a bit strange because you'd get hardly any conversion, but maybe the point was to get some protein haze from the lack of conversion (I my understanding of the process is correct). Kinda makes sense now.

Yeah, the extra starter is all fermented out but there seems to be a fair amount of trub (= settled out yeast hopefully) even in the secondary, so I might just stir that up when bottling rather than adding more yeast.

As for adding flour, I certainly hadn't thought of that, and I'm not sure if I'm game too. For a start I wouldn't know how much a "small amount" is, although I'll definately have a bit of a look into it.

AG just around the corner hopefully so once I get rid of the last few cans of extract I'll try this brew again and enjoy the difference.

Also, interesting to note that the Belgian wit-related threads seems to attract minimum interest from the huge knowledge base out there. I noticed one guy put up a prospective recipe for review and got plenty of looks but no feedback, and another guy posted about Hoegaarden and received a similar lack of response. Not quite sure what to read into that...

Anyway, thanks again for your comments and it's now time to get on with the bottling of whatever it turns out to be.

Cheers :beer:

 

[Swinging Beef]

Witbier is notoriously difficult to do in a kit form.
I suspect the reason for this is partly because of the high percentage of barley malt in "wheat" extract, and because of the process of condensing the wort to a syrup.
That aside...
The best kit Hoey clones Ive done have been with the white boxed Brewcraft kits.
One one occasion, I then add 125g of white flour in cooled boiled water suspension in the 2ndary to get the cloudiness. That helped, but wsnt good enough.
Next time, I added a 125g pack of Wheatbix (yep, really! malted wheat and salt! ) in the steep with the orange peel and coriander, and then at the end of the boil, I decided NOT to add a whirlfloc. I also did not add gelatine to the 2ndary.
That did the trick.
Problem is, now I dont know if it is the lack of the WHirlfloc or the Wheatbix that made the difference.

I think the reason for the lack of responses in the area of Witbier is that extract wit is near impossible to get right.
YOu just dont have enough control over the iniitial ingredients.

Another thing to note tho, is that if you buy a hoegaarden and leave it sitting for a while (2 wks) in the fridge, you can easily pour a clear wit. Its only if you agitate the bottle, like it tellsyou to on the side, that you get the required, fragrance and cloudiness that makes this beer one of my favorites.

Good luck, let us know how it all ends up in the glass, mate.

 

[debineko]

What the hell, 1 TBS of unbleached plain flour has gone into the priming mix. At least that's cloudy now.

A bit of a google turned up 1 TBS as an "old Belgian trick" to add starch haze under any conditions. To be added at flameout I must admit, so I'm a little past that, but as they say, better late then never. Although maybe not in home brew circles. Kaa-booom!!

Actually, I　initially forgot to add the irish moss (rather than whirfloc I my case) and brought the wort back up to the boil to add it. Maybe I might have been better just forgetting about it.

As for the weetbix, I have 2 packs of uncle tobys shredded wheat (100% whole wheat with no adding anything can you believe) sitting on top of the fridge that I was going to use if I couldn't get hold of any flaked/rolled wheat, so may look to that for help next time.

If all these efforts fail, I can fall back on the old agitate the bottle trick. Afterall it's just a cosmetic thing.

Thanks!

 

[Swinging Beef]

he he ... shredded wheat.. I like that stuff too much to put it into beer!
its nbot just a cosmetic thing.. it does have something to do with texture and aroma.
Im still looking forward to how you go.

 

[debineko]

Well it's in the bottle with a Westmaille kinda thing (i.e., thick swirling cloud of yeast, protein, whatever) going on down the bottom.

Ended up tiping 500ml of starter in there as well, as the trub at the bottom of the secondary was filmy and didn't really look usable.

But I have something to confess. I don't even like the style. But boy was it fun to make. Anyway, my eyes are open and I'm ready to be reborn, so give me a couple of weeks and I'll be sure to report back.
Swinging Beef, you might have to give us some feedback on that 8% tripel in secondary too. Sounds mighty interesting. :chug:

Over and out.