Belgian Candi Syrup. D-180, D-90, D45

[A3k]

[SIZE=medium]Hi guys,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I’ve been brewing a few Belgian Dubbels lately, and am considering Quads and considering making some lighter alcohol versions with similar characteristics to the Dubbels and Quads.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]So far I’ve used the candi syrup that’s available from many homebrew shops around [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]http://www.darkcandi.com/d.html[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. I’m not 100% sold on the stuff (could be my recipe though), so I’ve been reading around.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I’ve read good reports from the stuff these guys make. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]http://www.candisyrup.com/[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] I also like their recipes.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Has anyone tried them in comparison with the former syrup? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The price seems ok. I’m considering buying 8, which I can get shipped for US$59 + US$50. which comes to $15AUD each.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]It does seem a bit steep, but I’m happy to do it if the product is better than the stuff I’ve been using.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Cheers,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Al[/SIZE]

 

[slash22000]

You know you can make candi sugar yourself? It's extremely easy and costs almost nothing. There are thousands of guides on the net, I dunno which one is the best one though, maybe somebody can link a good one.

 

[All.Hopped.Up]

I was considering purchasing some of this http://www.organicsaustraliaonline.com.au/category214_1.htm < Organic Beer sugar and making my own.

 

[A3k]

[SIZE=11pt]Thanks Slash & All Hopped Up,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I’m not 100% convinced that I’ll make syrup that’ll taste authentic. I’m happy to give it a go, but I’d prefer to wait until I’m 100% happy with my results with a commercial product first to reduce the variables. When I do give it a crack, I’ll want to do a side by side with commercial too so I have a baseline.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Having said that, I have made the clear stuff for a Tripel, but that’s a bit different, as I’m not after such complex flavours.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Thanks,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Al[/SIZE]

 

[manticle]

You know you can make candi sugar yourself? It's extremely easy and costs almost nothing. There are thousands of guides on the net, I dunno which one is the best one though, maybe somebody can link a good one.

Ever tasted commercial d2?

 

[slash22000]

Nah I've never bought candi syrup from a store. Is it that much better than home made? I mean, $109 USD for ~3.6 kilos?

 

[manticle]

The clear candi isn't worth the cash but the very dark stuff is quite different in flavour from anything I have ever made. It's expensive but I use it only in special brews. It's pretty distinctive as a syrup and those flavours carry over. Bottled up a dark strong recently that I will try and age for a year or so so a few extra bucks is worth it.

 

[A3k]

Slash, it is expensive, but as manticle said, it's only for special brews... if it wasn't for the delivery, it's actually quite cheap i reckon.

Manticle, have you tried the D-180, 90 etc?

Cheers

 

[manticle]

The stuff I usually get is from grain and grape and it is repackaged. Stuff I got recently was from gryphon - I think it was from your first link but I'm not sure. Very similar character to the GG stuff. Only used the darkest syrup.

Belgian yeasts need a lot of love and conditioning in my experience. Are you sure it's an ingredients issue? What yeast?

 

[A3k]

Hi manticle,
I reckon I got the dark from g&g not the darkest.

I'm not sure it's an ingredients issue. I've had other issues such as over attenuation and possibly not oxygenating enough too.

Yeast was wy3787 westmalle yeast.

I am curious how much difference there is between the candi makers, and if its worth paying a little more to get the stuff from the US.

Cheers

 

[manticle]

I'd try it at least once.
I've never had great results with 3787 but I may not have aged long enough. 1762 abbey ii for dark and 1388 for pale get my vote. Both need age and care in my experience.

 

[jotaigna]

I like the d2-180, I have used it in dubbels. Raisiny date type flavours you cannot get from malt. I agree it is expensive but compared to how much imported commercial Belgian beers cost, I think it is still justified.

Manticle, can you explain what do you mean by 'care' wrt yeast? Oxygen? Pitching rates?
Ta

 

[manticle]

Healthy pitching rate/adequate starter size, reduced temperature at the beinning allowed to slowly rise through fermentation, incremental feeding of candy sugar post main ferment, adequate clean up time, long conditioning/lagering time are all things that have helped my bigger belgian style brews.

 

[humulus]

I reckon its worth the $$ recently put down a dark strong,with Belgian dark candi syrup(imported from Belgium made from sugar beets)
And my first dark strong is one year in the bottle and just come of age made withe the beet sugar,one off batches worth the $15kg
Just my 2bob

 

[gap]

Cryer Malt distribute the darkcandi products in Australia and would assume this is where G&G
source their candy syrup.

I can vouch for the D2 . There is no comparison between D2 and home made.
The D2 has more complexity in aroma and flavour.

Regards

Graeme

 

[wereprawn]

I was considering purchasing some of this http://www.organicsaustraliaonline.com.au/category214_1.htm < Organic Beer sugar and making my own.

Why? Surly you can find cheaper beet sugar. And are beet and cane sugar both not pure sucrose when processed ? Or is it the organic label the thing you find attractive? Can one sugar be more organic than another? Buy definition the answer is clearly no. Something is considered organic if its molecules are based around carbon atoms. The whole "organic" food industry is a massive con. To say "my carrot is more organic than your carrot because of the way it was grown" is just crazy talk.
Not meaning to put shit on you AHU .Just sayin.

 

[Mardoo]

FWIW from my years as a pastry chef there are differences in flavor between beet sugar and cane sugar when used in cooking. Pastry chefs generally look for cane sugar, largely because it has a cleaner flavor, particularly when caramelising for toffee. So since thats what you are doing when making candi sugar it's possible that difference would be noticeable.

 

[A3k]

Hi Manticle,
i assume you mean Wyeast 1762 for dark, not 1272 (the am ale ii)? i may have to give it a crack sometime. I do like Rochefort.

Humulus,
where'd you get import the Belgian syrup from?

Gap,
I've not tried the D2, just the D. I'm pretty sure you're right about the stuff G&G sell. I reckon it's the same as what Beerbelly sell too. Maybe i need to give the D2 a crack.


What i guess i'm trying to find out from this post is whether the D & D2 from darkcandi (ie Beerbelly / G&G) are the best for the job, or if there's a better (and tried) option.
As these beers need so much aging, It'd be a long process of trial and error.

Mardoo,
that's interesting about the differences between beet and cane sugars. I assumed they were just different means to the same end.

Thanks again guys

 

[manticle]

Why? Surly you can find cheaper beet sugar. And are beet and cane sugar both not pure sucrose when processed ? Or is it the organic label the thing you find attractive? Can one sugar be more organic than another? Buy definition the answer is clearly no. Something is considered organic if its molecules are based around carbon atoms. The whole "organic" food industry is a massive con. To say "my carrot is more organic than your carrot because of the way it was grown" is just crazy talk.
Not meaning to put shit on you AHU .Just sayin.

Organic food is a con? Can't wait to hear more.

The term organic in chemistry and in food are often conflated and a carrot is molecularly/atomically the same whether it's grown with loads of fertiliser or not but to suggest that there is no flavour difference between food that is grown one way as opposed to another suggests you've never actually tried it or you have no palate.

A3K - yes 1762. Have edited the original post now. 1762 throws a lot of ethyl hexoanate (red apple ester) which settles with time so the lovely date/fig etc flavours can shine.

 

[wereprawn]

Organic food is a con? Can't wait to hear more.

The term organic in chemistry and in food are often conflated and a carrot is molecularly/atomically the same whether it's grown with loads of fertiliser or not but to suggest that there is no flavour difference between food that is grown one way as opposed to another suggests you've never actually tried it or you have no palate.

A3K - yes 1762. Have edited the original post now. 1762 throws a lot of ethyl hexoanate (red apple ester) which settles with time so the lovely date/fig etc flavours can shine.

Not saying that plants grown in different soils or with artificial fertilizers don't taste different. It's the use of the word "organic" used in the marketing. Try growing an inorganic carrot! Anyway i'm off to rehydrate some water for my next brew.