Beer Too Thin

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pickledparrot69

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G'day.

N00b question here regarding bag-mash allgrain. Mate of mine put down a brew recently that included 2.5 kilograms of pale malt, plus some wheat and some carasomething. Bottled it and let it mature for a few weeks, ending up with a fantastic beer similar to Little Creatures / James Squire Golden Ale. I had a couple and they were quite spot on, except maybe for it being a bit young. He did it again a few weeks later, exactly the same, except for two things, one being that 2.5 kilograms of pilsener malt was used instead of pale malt, also that he kegged it instead of bottling it. The results the second time around is that the beer is very thin. By that I mean it lacks the body of the first one. The alcohol content is also lower. The only suspicion is that pale malt and pils malt might have different characteristics, or else he might have measured some temperatures when mashing wrong the second time. It crossed my mind this morning that it could also be to do with bottle conditioning verses keg carbonation. I also did this recipe last week, on exactly the same gear. might bottle it today so its too early to tell if the identicle procedure produces a thin beer for me too. Any suggestions about whether pilsener malt should be treated and different to pale? Dunno if it matters, but the same yeast was used each time as well - a WL Ale strain. pitched from an almighty starter. Right now, these different results dont make a lot of sense.

Cheers,
PP69
 
How do you know it's lower alcohol?

A lower mash temperature will give you a drier beer, keg/bottle differences won't change much unless the carbonation is different (a fizzier beer can seem more "heavy").
 
Hello Adam, then a drier beer would be thinner because the yeast has left less residual malt sugars in the brew, right? If they have been converted to alcohol that should mean a higher alc volume I thought. In this case it's a thin beer >and< a weak beer.
 
I would suggest it is a problem with the mash temp. When i started BIAB i had the reverse problem, the beers were really sweet. I had only a basic way of measuring the temp of the mash and the result was i was mashing at about 68-70 degrees (i think) when i was aiming for 65 (APA and IPA being brewed).

If you mash at too high a temp you will get too many unfermentable sugars resulting in a sweet beer. Conversley if you mash at too low a temp you will get too many fermentables resulting in a dry beer that lacks body.

Since i invested in a proper thermometer it has been smooth sailing. ;)
 
You might be right. While the process for both was identical, apart from the pils/pale malts, the el-cheapo thermometer used only has a short probe, about eight inches max. So the readings might be skewed because it wasnt getting into the sweetspot
 
No shit, Sherlock


grumble. grumble, mumble.

Grinch

er...

Screwy

Gold :lol:

Yep Pils and Ale are different with different characteristics but similar...brand of malt?

If you think its thin and weak I immediately think the second mash had shitty conversion, you got less out of the grain than you thought you would...same volume, less sugar means thin weak beer. Fix your process.
 
Sorry to drag up an old topic, but I need help.

I whacked the brew (below) down a few weeks ago on Australia Day. My problem with is I obviously did not hit my target OG, I think I have tracked that down to my mill not crushing all the grain properly.
But god damn, this beer tastes like the K&K brews when I first started. It is THIN, metallic and just not enjoyable. I thought Id bottle a few from the keg and toss the rest, but wanted to find out from you learned folk what the cause might have been?
Its only saving grace has been basically being a really expensive yeast starter for my English Barleywine!! :icon_cheers:

Strong Scotch Ale

Type: All Grain
Date: 26/01/2010
Batch Size: 15.00 L
Boil Size: 30.00 L
Boil Time: 120 min
Equipment: BIAB

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4700.00 gm Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 86.24 %
300.00 gm Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 5.50 %
35.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.70 %] (60 min) Hops 26.3 IBU
10.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.70 %] (10 min) Hops 2.7 IBU
1.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
450.00 gm Brown Sugar, Dark (98.5 EBC) Sugar 8.26 %
1 Pkgs Edinburgh Ale (White Labs #WLP028) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.091 SG - Measured Original Gravity: 1.075 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.023 SG - Measured Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.82 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.85 %
Bitterness: 29.0 IBU
Est Color: 23.6

Cheers
DK
 
How did you mash, did you get optimal temperature and how much water was used? Did you do anything different this time around.

Decreases in mash efficency come from amny different factors, the easiest ones to correct are, mash temp, water to grain ratio, and ensuring you have no dough balls in your mash.

I reckon the lack of body (or thinness as you put it) is a result of the lack of sugar extracted from the grain. Metalic taste I'm not sure about, never experienced it as far as I can remember

Some more info would be great.

Cheers

Aaron
 
Sorry to drag up an old topic, but I need help.

Strong Scotch Ale

Type: All Grain
Date: 26/01/2010
Batch Size: 15.00 L
Boil Size: 30.00 L
Boil Time: 120 min
Equipment: BIAB

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4700.00 gm Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 86.24 %
300.00 gm Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 5.50 %
35.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.70 %] (60 min) Hops 26.3 IBU
10.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.70 %] (10 min) Hops 2.7 IBU
1.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
450.00 gm Brown Sugar, Dark (98.5 EBC) Sugar 8.26 %
1 Pkgs Edinburgh Ale (White Labs #WLP028) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.091 SG - Measured Original Gravity: 1.075 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.023 SG - Measured Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.82 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.85 %
Bitterness: 29.0 IBU
Est Color: 23.6

Cheers
DK

No cara/crystal, 8.26% sugar, 75 down to 15
Reckon ya pretty much got what ya made, especially if you fermented a bit warm

Screwy
 
Blody hell Screwy...you are a learned fellow...full repsect for your knowledge..i reckon the screwtop is right...
 
Gold :lol:

Yep Pils and Ale are different with different characteristics but similar...brand of malt?

If you think its thin and weak I immediately think the second mash had shitty conversion, you got less out of the grain than you thought you would...same volume, less sugar means thin weak beer. Fix your process.

Is there that much difference between the two? i have been toldthat there isnt all that much difference. If what i have been told is completely wrong I may have to jump on the vic bulk buy and get me another bag!
 
I find tasting raw malt will give you an indication of how different they are. Not suggesting you'll be able to prdict the exact characterisitc they'll bring to a brew but if it tastes different raw it will probably taste different fermented.

Even things like weyerman munich and joe white munich differ in their raw state (quite a bit).
 
Thanks guys,

Anyway I brewed the same recipe after fixing my crusher, increasing the mash volume (I only did a 15L batch last time) and therefore my water to grain ratio and upped my mash temp from 66 to 69 deg. It tastes completely different out of primary, much maltier.

Not too sure about the metallic taste, I have dumped the old batch anyway!

Cheers
DK
 

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