Beer going off ?

[trustyrusty]

During covid I know a few pubs that had to get rid of beer because it could go “off”. I have got a ginger beer in a keg because I don’t what to do with it. Probably 3 years. I tasted it the other day, it’s actually getting better. Is this just bs to sell more beer, or is this true. I don’t see it going off? Can it? It’s in a keg under pressure with co2, in refrigerator or cool room… thanks

 

[yankinoz]

In this respect, no two batches are alike. Homebrewers don't pasteurize beer. The microorganisms that survive brewing may or may not survive and multiply in long storage. How cool was the room?.

There are some constants. In general, the best ageing beers are malty, not highly hoppy and, above all, high in alcohol. Ginger, I don't know, except I've known English ginger wines to sit on shelves for years.

I knew of many instances where UK pubs tossed casks. It's one reason the brewers wanted to go to kegs.

 

[trustyrusty]

I just wondering if beer at the pubs can really go off? As long as temperature is low and constant I can’t see it happening?

 

[yankinoz]

I can only

I just wondering if beer at the pubs can really go off? As long as temperature is low and constant I can’t see it happening?

Cask beer in UK pubs was and presumably is susceptible to spoilage. It was kept at cellar temps, which could go as high as 13-14. Poor cleaning of pipes often contaminated them and backflowed into the casks. If trade was slow it also went flat. Some real ale enthusiasts in those parts have claimed those problems were rare. They weren't. My data suggests they were endemic in many smaller pubs, where the regulars got so used to them they preferred the milder offtastes, such as dank lemon.

But you mean Australian pubs. If the keg is kept at lagering temps up to 7-8 degrees, and the pipes are clean, spoilage is very unlikely, But are those rules always obeyed?

 

[dkril]

What beer? If it was a NEIPA or something with a similarly short shelf life selling the stock off quickly makes sense.

Another thought: how much would the pub save by switching off the cool room?

 

[philrob]

I believe beers do deteriorate in the keg, I could always tell at my golf club when my favourite beer was a fresh keg or one getting towards the end. The happiness, aroma and bitterness definitely reduced as the keg went down.

 

[trustyrusty]

Just standard beer, new vb xxxx

 

[trustyrusty]

I believe beers do deteriorate in the keg, I could always tell at my golf club when my favourite beer was a fresh keg or one getting towards the end. The happiness, aroma and bitterness definitely reduced as the keg went down.

To be honest, someone like who knows but I reckon most would not know. Our golf club started giving it away (because beer companies said it would go off), I couldn’t tell the difference.. 6 months old, actually was perfectly fine.

 

[golfandbrew]

https://www.brewsnews.com.au/2017/07/07/nine-month-best-before-dates-ridiculous-says-beer-professor/

 

[MHB]

Never disagree with DrB.
Mark

 

[me14]

Bars will be bound by the best before dates on the keg. Plenty of food products last well beyond their best before dates but businesses still can't sell them. From my uni days working in a pub supplied by CUB the dates were fairly tight, usually 2-3 months. Storage was not always at cool temperatures either as we were limited on cool room space and only received one delivery a week. The best before dates are probably conservative from the breweries assuming worst case storage conditions.

 

[trustyrusty]

Bars will be bound by the best before dates on the keg. Plenty of food products last well beyond their best before dates but businesses still can't sell them. From my uni days working in a pub supplied by CUB the dates were fairly tight, usually 2-3 months. Storage was not always at cool temperatures either as we were limited on cool room space and only received one delivery a week. The best before dates are probably conservative from the breweries assuming worst case storage conditions.

Going back my point the information is coming from the big brewers.... great for business

But the point is going off or not fresh is different. If they use the term "going off" or can go off, its sounds worse. If they said "can go stale but the average person wouldn't really know". LOL

Also if the beer was in the fridges and -3 and refrigerated lines can it actually even go off or even get stale. I think I have a had a keg in the fridge for a while and is fine.

 

[chrisfromperth]

But the point is going off or not fresh is different. If they use the term "going off" or can go off, its sounds worse. If they said "can go stale but the average person wouldn't really know". LOL

My family used to run a pub and had up to a dozen specialty beers on tap. A number of die-hard patrons could tell when a keg was close to its best before date. But the casual drinker couldn't - and enjoyed it at a discount once the best before was reached.

 

[trustyrusty]

My family used to run a pub and had up to a dozen specialty beers on tap. A number of die-hard patrons could tell when a keg was close to its best before date. But the casual drinker couldn't - and enjoyed it at a discount once the best before was reached.

Thanks - but about the normal VB, XXXX New?

 

[MHB]

The "normal" beers are probably the worst. They are lightly hopped, hops protect beer. They are filtered or centrifuged and pasteurised so have no yeast, yeast can and will protest beer to some extent. They aren’t packaged Oxygen free, Oxygen will help beer age pretty quickly (arguably yeast helps reduce O2).
All that added to the normal aging processes that go on in packaged beer guarantee that most beer slowly go downhill over time.
The Holy Grail for big breweries is a one year shelf life. the stability of packaged beer has improved, as little as a decade ago it was only six weeks or so before the O2 and any bugs that survived made the beer go off (undrinkably so). Improvements in process have pushed that out to 3-6 months today and I'm sure megas will keep trying to extend the shelf life. One of the big Americans (Coors IfIRC) have a brewery to consumer guaranteed cold delivery chain, that’s expensive and is all about shelf stable product.

I have had 12 month old Coopers on tap and it was lovely - the big difference being the live yeast the beer is packaged with. As home brewers we are hopping more heavily (mostly) packaging with live yeast and hopefully looking after our beer better than most commercial operations, so our beer should be good longer.
But beer will change with time and some styles are best very young (Heffe!), some develop better with time (big and black beers).
There isn’t a "Right" answer, lots of wrong ones like poor O2 control and bad hygiene.
Mark

 

[trustyrusty]

The "normal" beers are probably the worst. They are lightly hopped, hops protect beer. They are filtered or centrifuged and pasteurised so have no yeast, yeast can and will protest beer to some extent. They aren’t packaged Oxygen free, Oxygen will help beer age pretty quickly (arguably yeast helps reduce O2).
All that added to the normal aging processes that go on in packaged beer guarantee that most beer slowly go downhill over time.
The Holy Grail for big breweries is a one year shelf life. the stability of packaged beer has improved, as little as a decade ago it was only six weeks or so before the O2 and any bugs that survived made the beer go off (undrinkably so). Improvements in process have pushed that out to 3-6 months today and I'm sure megas will keep trying to extend the shelf life. One of the big Americans (Coors IfIRC) have a brewery to consumer guaranteed cold delivery chain, that’s expensive and is all about shelf stable product.

I have had 12 month old Coopers on tap and it was lovely - the big difference being the live yeast the beer is packaged with. As home brewers we are hopping more heavily (mostly) packaging with live yeast and hopefully looking after our beer better than most commercial operations, so our beer should be good longer.
But beer will change with time and some styles are best very young (Heffe!), some develop better with time (big and black beers).
There isn’t a "Right" answer, lots of wrong ones like poor O2 control and bad hygiene.
Mark

The live yeast makes sense, keeps it active and producing co2, so should help. I cannot understand why standard beer packaged with o2. I have not yet found out how commercial beer like new, xxxx etc standard beers are carbonated ie c02 added. Is it added a kegging/bottling? Or it is from pressure fermentation? Or do they carbonate in holding tanks with co2 then bottle/keg?

 

[Paddy Melon]

My dad brewed his own about 50 years ago, (it wasn't the best) but he thought his beer was going off too. Truth is, we lived two doors down from the school I went to and every lunch time a couple of mates and I would sneak home and crack one of his king browns. I told my mother about it a couple of years ago and although I'm in my 60's I still coped a smack because she said her and dad would argue about how much he was drinking and although he swore his beer was "going off" she didn't believe him.

 

[yankinoz]

Just standard beer, new vb xxxx

VB? In that case I have a modest proposal.

 

[Grok]

My dad brewed his own about 50 years ago, (it wasn't the best) but he thought his beer was going off too. Truth is, we lived two doors down from the school I went to and every lunch time a couple of mates and I would sneak home and crack one of his king browns. I told my mother about it a couple of years ago and although I'm in my 60's I still coped a smack because she said her and dad would argue about how much he was drinking and although he swore his beer was "going off" she didn't believe him.

BTW, I thought a paddy melon (Cucumis myriocarpu) was the small and slightly prickly melon, your avatar I think is an Afghan or Camel Melon (Citrullus lanatus), so you might have to change your name.....
Wonder if you can make beer from them?

 

[Paddy Melon]

BTW, I thought a paddy melon (Cucumis myriocarpu) was the small and slightly prickly melon, your avatar I think is an Afghan or Camel Melon (Citrullus lanatus), so you might have to change your name.....
Wonder if you can make beer from them?

Technically, yes, maybe, but I have the computer skills of a paddy melon and that was my best attempt. when I was growing up the kids across the road had leggo and a mechano set I had marbles...you know those spherical glass things.