Basic Apple/pear & Pomegranate Cider

[pdilley]

i'm wanting to give this cider a go.. should I use 05 (which I have), or be patient and order the Wyeast 4766 cider yeast?

Also when making the starter, should I use juice, or malt extract as normal?

I deleted my post because of a yeast typo, sorry about that. To correct, S-04 yeast is what I used in Simplest Cider as outlined in that post.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[pdilley]

well went to take a hydro reading last night.... cant find the $#^$# thing. so I had to do with drinking a sample instead and I'll buy a hydro on the weekend.

the taste wasnt at all what I was expecting. slight fruit, character, very white wine in character, slightly dry finish. no alc taste, very much like a reisling I decided. My wife had a taste and thought it tasted salty. I asked her if she meant dry and that she agreed that was probably more accurate. Its still cloudy but then again it was the first sample from the tap so there was some yeast suspended.

so I have no idea about this, given that its my first cider. Im not sure whether the yeast has given up and its only partially fermented? is it meant to taste like that? I know the belgian yeast I used will make it taste slightly differant but it was very much like wine and tasted nothing like commercial ciders ive tasted (which is probably a good thing!).

any comments, thought?

I think I should put this in a post on its own, but the Great Cider Cross Fermentation With Various Yeasts Experiment is a good reference to print out and store away.

Most "White Wine" ciders are because you used a wine yeast, or quite simply you did not let your cider age properly for the minimum bottle conditioning time of 6 months.

Ciders really do improve in age.

I have a small batch recipe for you to try while you let that one get to the bottling and aging or if you have the glass fermenters you can rack into a glass fermenter and bulk age. If you age for a long time remember that when bottling you will likely have to repitch a tiny bit of yeast to carb up in the bottle.

This is a 1 Gallon (3.78 litre) recipe that will fit perfectly in a glass 5 litre demijohn like I have for my Mead and Small Batch experiments (got 16 of them and trying hard to resist buying more).

Do NOT use a wine yeast with this or you will have to stop the fermentation early yourself!

Ingredients:
3.78 litres of Apple Juice, ALDI with no preservatives or cider apples if you can get them pressed.
450 grams of Brown Sugar (Dark or Normal up to you, try both)
1 Whole cinnamon stick
1/2 Nutmeg, crushed up
1 or 2 cloves

Do not boil, but heat the Apple Juice in a saucepan and dissolve the brown sugar, and add the spices.
Steep this for 20 minutes.
Wait until it cools to around 24-25 degrees.
If you have a nice big funnel with filter great, otherwise filter the spices (or not, your choice) and pour splashing through the funnel into the fermenter.
Now get yourself that new decent (accurate) hydrometer, or get the $26 and order the refractometer from the AHB refractometer post.
If you can get White Labs English Cider, all the better, otherwise Wyeast Cider, or an ale yeast that works for ciders like S-04.

OG should be rather close to 1.102
FG should be rather close to 1.002
Spices should be not obvious but present
Apple aroma should be present
Taste should be great
*** but ***
Minimum aging for 6 months required. Best after 8 months aging. Yeasty until aged properly.


P.S. I will have to see what running a 1/3rd Sugar Break and Standard Nutrient Addition to a Cider could do to the aging times as it works wonders with large reductions in Mead time.

 

[manticle]

My recent cider was nice - I could definitely taste the benefit of using a variety of apples (sweet, bitter, tart). It was also quite dry with a certain homage paid to white wine (used white wine yeast after all) but it worked for me. The only thing I would change next time is either making a smaller batch or biting the bullet and juicing more apples as I topped up with water. I'd like some more apple in there.

 

[dug]

ATM I've got 2 ciders on the go, one using champange yeast and the other SO4. Both are made with freshly juiced apples with a few pears in the mix as well. The SO4 one had a real sulfur smell to it for about 2 weeks, but that is starting to go away now.

I juiced another 15L worth of apples on the weekend and was hoping to add some more pears but they were way to ripe, (soft and squshy), that when I ran them through the juicer all I ended up with was a mushy mess <_< should have got off my .... and juiced them earlier. anyways what I was thinking of doing for this batch is to culture some yeast from a bottle of lindermans lambic and see how that goes. Worth a try me thinks.

 

[brettprevans]

Most "White Wine" ciders are because you used a wine yeast, or quite simply you did not let your cider age properly for the minimum bottle conditioning time of 6 months.

Ciders really do improve in age.

since i used a belgian beer yeast that rules out taste due to using a wine yeast. So I guess it must just be needing some aging. Thats fine. I'll check SG on the weekend and its finished fermentation, then:

1. off to the chest freezer for some lagering/conditioning. 1 week.
2. next weekend, yeast will be dormant or dead, so Ill mix in Pomegranate juice to taste.
3. back into chesty for another week.
4. keg and age.

so I recon another 3 weeks max and then its aging time.

 

[Supra-Jim]

I have found the ciders I've done, were really hitting their straps after about 6months aging. Got a really nice champagne like bubble to them, the difficulty is keeping your hands off them for such a long period!!!!

Cheers SJ

 

[captaincleanoff]

i'm going to give this a go tonight

I have a white labs vial full of 05 slurry. You guys think that would be enough to kick off 24L of juice, without a starter??

 

[brettprevans]

yup. its only ~1048OG. shouldnt be too hard for the yeast to have a crack at it.

edit: actually thinking about it, i probably only had 1 vial worth of yeast in my starter. althought ive never seen a WL vial in person so im only guessing about sie. im imagining one o the stiock standard test tubes you used get in high school.

 

[captaincleanoff]

yeah they are a bit bigger than normal test tubes. About 50ml I think.

Citymorgue do you mean that you pitched 1 vial worth into the starter, or you ended up with that much?

 

[brettprevans]

i ended up with that much and pitched it.

I just did a starter from a pack of T58 dired yeast. stepped it up once and then pitched. so 1 pack of yeast + ~250ml of juice. once fermented out, tip out 'beer' and added ~300ml or more of juice again. once fermented out, tipped off the 'beer' and pitched the lot.

once pitched it took off in a couple of hours.

 

[brettprevans]

update on this.

Did another taste test last night (just straight cider). the win like flavour has sissapated and there is a now a slightly tart taste. not unpleasent just slightly acidic. there is also a slight bready taste stilll there from the belgian yeast. I quite like it.

Anyways decided to do some testing of adding Pomegranate concentrate to the cider..... The pomegranite has a slight sweetnes but it then sour like cranberries. no matter what ratio i mixed it was too sour/tart for my wife. maybe i should have fermented it out.... I would like it as a summer drink, but its not me., its for the wife.

backup plan. - add mulberry concentrate/syrup to the cider..... still a light tang to it but a lot sweeter.
next step- depth of flavour...I added a few drops of vanilla essence (for instand vanilla flavour - id use vanilla beans in the brew). yum!

so the plan now is to leave the cider to lager for a month or so, then add in a few vanilla beans and some mulberry concentrate. I'll bottle some cider with the Pomegranate to see how it goes, but the mulberry will be the star of the show.

maybe need to backsweeten slightly. I dont have any lactose so will come up with something.

 

[brettprevans]

update time

Racked it off the yeast. Been cold conditioning for about 2 weeks.

15 June (Last Monday)
I siphoned off some cider and added 3 vanilla sticks and heated it up. Then back into the fermentor for room temp conditioning (which in melb is about 12C atm)

18 June (thurs)
Added 1kg of Mulberry concentrate/syrup.
again i siphoned off some cider, heated it up to dissolve the mulberry concentrate/syrup. into the fermentor.
wife thought ti was slightly to tart?. so I dissolved about 300g of white sugar into a bit of water and into the fermentor it went.

21 June (Sunday)
emptied into keg and some 750PET bottles.
Carbing @ ~ 80KPA

Hopefully it will be ready this weekend for a trial.

Im going to mix a little of of pomagranite into the bottled stuff for a taste. let you know how it goes.

Summary:
1. pomagranite is bloody sour/tart in finish. recomend using it in primary to scrub out some tartness.
2. if your going to use it, you'll need to sweeten the end result (I recon some lactose might solve the problem).
3. mulberry is great stuff, but still needed a little sweetening.
4. I probably ended up with 4.4% - 4.8%. I recon 6% would have been better.
5. cold condioning is key. it really help clear it up and create a little crispness.
6. I prefer the flavour of this to any commercial cider ive tasted. incl coldstream. (althought coldstream is a clean nuetral cider so its not really comparing apples with apples (bad pun))

 

[brettprevans]

decided to taste a bottle of the uncarbed stuff last night. Not bad. a little sweet since its not carbed. I drnak half a 750ml bottle then decided to add some vodka for sh*ts and giggles. Lovely little mixer it turns out to be.

the vanilla is really coming through now.

 

[pdilley]

Keep us updated as it progresses.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[max10au]

Hi All
I have just starting to do Home Brews again. I can make them so my pallet loves them. I am on a Pension so this is great for me. Now I would like to make a Cider brew as close to the Strongbow Sweet taste. I have only made a cider from a Canned mix and it tasted flat and shithouse. I have read just about all this subject on this site and cant decide what to do. So here is what I have a 30lt fermentor (Plastic) so I would want to make the Cider at about 25lt per brew. I dont want to spend a lot of money making it. I have heard that you have to put Apple Juice in it as well? All I want is a Cider that is Sparkling (With Bubbles) and drinkable. How would I do this, Brewing, what is the right size Fermenting Bottle to use, how long till I can drink it etc: All I want is a simple Sparkling Sweet Cider to drink. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance. Also what size Bottles should I use to Bottle the Cider in.
:icon_chickcheers:

 

[pdilley]

Hi All
I have just starting to do Home Brews again.

Hey Max,

Good to see you home brewing again. Because your question will take this particular thread off topic, best post it in a new post in the forum and then you can get some responses to it in there. Otherwise people might not respond as they think it will take over from the Original Poster of this thread.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[brettprevans]

Hi All
I have just starting to do Home Brews again. I can make them so my pallet loves them. I am on a Pension so this is great for me. Now I would like to make a Cider brew as close to the Strongbow Sweet taste. I have only made a cider from a Canned mix and it tasted flat and shithouse. I have read just about all this subject on this site and cant decide what to do. So here is what I have a 30lt fermentor (Plastic) so I would want to make the Cider at about 25lt per brew. I dont want to spend a lot of money making it. I have heard that you have to put Apple Juice in it as well? All I want is a Cider that is Sparkling (With Bubbles) and drinkable. How would I do this, Brewing, what is the right size Fermenting Bottle to use, how long till I can drink it etc: All I want is a simple Sparkling Sweet Cider to drink. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance. Also what size Bottles should I use to Bottle the Cider in.
:icon_chickcheers:

MAx

good to hear your back brewing.

I recon the best place for your question is either a new thread 'Strongbow Sweet Cider - How do I make something similar' or post the question under BrewerPete's Simpliest cider thread here . I only suggest BP's thread as your wanting a very simple inexpensive way to make cider. well it doesnt get any simplier than BP's method.

I woul expect that a sweet cider yeast or a champaign yeast with lactose added would be the way to go. I personally dont like storngbow and havent tasted the stuff in so long that I couldnt give you any real advice as I dont remember what it tastes like.

I think someone else may have posted a wuetion on how to make a dry stongbow. might be worth asking the question in that thread.

 

[brettprevans]

Had another sample last night. Yum. Its not something that i'd personally drink all the time but the missus likes it which is who I brewed it for.

There is a sweetness added by the mulberry then a slight bitterness which I can onnly attribute to the fact that its a syrup/concentrate. but I think it works well. It really needs the vanilla I thinnk to add depth of flavour.

The mulberry seemes to have clouded it up quite a lot. its a lot clearer than what it was but I think the mulberry will permentantly cloud it. not that it really matters. I was thinking last night about what went wrong with the head (there was none). then it occured to me...its a cider, it doesnt have head. so all is well. carbed up nicely.

so I'd probably make this again but tweak it slightly. just have a play around with it to suit personal preferance.

 

[brettprevans]

well another taste update for the record.

cider has cleared and some of the insoluble mulberry bits has dropped out which has led to a small loss in flavour but not enough to worry about. Missus is drinking it happily.

Maple and his missus (I think) sampled some and it got a thumbs up. so I recon I'll mark this up as a success.

 

[MitchDudarko]

Would you suggest subbing the pomigranite syrup with Grenadine? Just having issues sourcing it.