Avoiding Chill Haze Without Polyclar

[manticle]

I have recently started using polyclar to combat chill haze. Works a treat when added correctly (thanks Ross and Chris Taylor for tips).

However I'm of a mind to use less additives, rather than more for my brews. Is there anything I can change in my processes to avoid chill haze proteins developing in the first place?

I realise there's probably a search I could do to satisfy my curiosity (which I am doing anyway) but a few brewers besides me who are new to AG or wanting to move towards it, might also benefit from the advice of experienced brewers.

Cheers.

 

[NickB]

Mate, I was the biggest Polyclar sceptic until I tried it in my beers. Previously, was chilling for a day or two prior to Filtering, and getting a crystal clear beer into the keg, only to have haze appear a few days later. Added polyclar to a decent batch and have no such issue.

For me, this is HUGE! If a simple addition Of polyclar 24-48 hrs before legging makes that much difference, call me converted! And for what you pay, surely it's a case of just do it?

Cheers

 

[Nick JD]

Wasn't Bribie saying that we eat polyclar all the time in all sorts of stuff?

 

[manticle]

Don't get me wrong - I use it and have no major problem with it. I'm just wondering if there's a way to accomplish the same by altering mash/boil processes. If particular processes cause chill haze then is there a way to change that?

I'll be using polyclar at least until I find this out and I've noticed no ill effects from it (unlike sulphites for example).

 

[bcp]

It's actually a good question. Does polyclar mask some poor practice in the grind, mash or boil?

 

[NickB]

I've yet to come across a method that prevents haze in regards to brewing process. If there is a solution, I'll be the first to try it!

I know that I used to get similar results with gelaine prior to me filtering my beers, but it took a few days to clear to the same extent.

I know there was talk on here about polyclar as a kettle addition, but can't recall the outcome ATM!

Cheers

PS: cold conditioning or lagering would yield a similar result but with a wait of a few weeks or so

 

[warra48]

Chill haze is caused by proteins left in the beer, rather than taken out as part of the cold break. It is usually caused by not chilling quickly enough.

The quicker you can cool from boiling to room temperature, the less chill haze you should have.

 

[thesunsettree]

Chill haze is caused by proteins left in the beer, rather than taken out as part of the cold break. It is usually caused by not chilling quickly enough.

The quicker you can cool from boiling to room temperature, the less chill haze you should have.

hi warra,

how does that equate to no chill?

cheers
matt

 

[manticle]

So no chill has no chance?

I've been no chilling recently but will be building myself a copper immersion chiller soonish. I'll try and do a comparison with the same beer brewed on the same day in two separate batches.

 

[jetfoley]

For my Partial grains kit recipes I add a 3kg bag of ice to the hot wort, and they always end up clear as buggery (i also use gelatine/finnings and cold conditioning) and yet to get an infection.

Cant help you for all grain recipes as I dont have the correct setup for that. But I'm sure a bag or 2 of ice in the laundry tub plus water, would make a great ice bath for the kettle to cool it. Thats what I plan to do (in Brisbane our tap water is 30C anyways so an imersion chiller would be useless).

 

[NickB]

Pretty sure kit beers don't suffer from chill haze anyway. Prepared to be corrected though!

Cheers

 

[bcp]

My quick search suggests three preventatives before you resort to finings:

• Avoid hot-side aeration (i know, some are sceptical, but interesting article with a pedigree behind it) http://oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Methods/...r/HSAmash.shtml
• Boil it hard and chill quickly, as suggested.
• Protein rest (allowing enzymes to break down the proteins, or made insoluble by reactions with other compounds)
  http://www.byo.com/stories/techniques/arti...quer-chill-haze

The last article seems to point to no chill in particular as being more difficult to avoid chill haze.

But that's just a quick search from someone who admits i'm barely beginning to understand all this. Interested to hear other perspectives.

 

[browndog]

I chill and no-chill as the mood takes me. I went through a period of filtering and using polyclar but these days I just use gelatine and end up with bright beer. As for chill haze, I believe it all relates to your boil, I boil hard for 75 mins and I think this is the reason I don't have problems with chill haze. I have had a problem with it but it was only when dry hopping with 100g of hops so I don't count that. When my beer has reached terminal gravity I drop the temp down to 2C for a week, the day before kegging I add a 250ml of water with a teaspoon of gelatine to the fermenter. The next day I keg and add another 250ml with a teaspoon of gelatine to the keg. Connect the gas up at 300kpa and leave it for 24hrs. A couple of pints later the beer is clear as you could want. As I said though, I believe the secret is a strong boil.

cheers

Browndog

PS Clarity is the same regardless of chill or no-chill.

 

[alford_j]

I have been using polyclar for all my beers for the last 8 batches. I was very happy with the results. I got a gusher bug in my second last batch and stopped any additional fiddling with beers till I got the bug sorted which meant no polyclar.

The last beer I made was an AG english IPA which I chilled with an immersion chiller, didn't rack to secondary and cold conditioned for only 3 days and it came out very clear. Not 100% crystal clear but very good. You certainly wouldn't bother using polyclar in the IPA but other batches didn't look so good in the glass, hence my use of polyclar in the first place.

The steps I did differently to other batches were:

1) I did a 2 hr boil
2) didn't use whirlfloc
3) after the brew cooled to 30C with the immersion chiller I used iced water and a pump to chill to 19C. Bulk of the cooling was similar to usual, but finished cooling in the kettle, not in the fermenter in the fridge.
4) did a small amount of stirring during cooling to even out the temp of the cooling wort
5) Didn't rack to secondary

Too many variables to figure out what it is, plus different recipe etc. Looks like I did a few things to help it clear, but a few thing that would hinder clearing too. Any similarities in other people's experience?

Alfie

 

[Thirsty Boy]

All the suggestions will help - a little - but chill haze is one of the reasons lager beers are lagered - time and gravity are the main non additive fixes, and pretty much always have been. Causes will largely be raw material related with a little process tossed in. I personally believe that rapid chilling has bugger all to do with it (final temperature of the chill does) and that an adequate boil is as good as an over the top boil. Others obviously differ.

Pretty much... but obviously not always ... everyone gets a bit of chill haze, because mostly we all drink our beers too damn cold. We chill them down to the levels that high adjunct mega lagers are served... and they all have lower protein levels and still get chill haze unless they are treated anyway. An all malt beer with no treatment chilled to that level has stuff all chance.

Now if we were to drink our beers at a nice civilized 7-8degrees for a pale lager and warmer for everything else.... it might not be an issue at all. If you see chill haze in your ales.. its your own damn fault for drinking them too cold.

 

[manticle]

So if I cold condition my beers for longer I can avoid this?

Most beers I'm happy to serve between 5 and 10 degrees as I'm not a fan of superchilled fizz. It's just been during summer that I've noticed this problem of haze (and hence started using polyclar) as normally I just grab my beer from the shed during autumn/winter. If it tastes bad, you'll know it if it's above 5 degrees. If it's good then you brewed well.

During summer, the beers would gush if opened without chilling first and tasted nice but warm. I like beer above 5 degrees but actually 'warm' is not pleasant.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Its just gravity manticle - cold condition, chill haze forms, chill haze falls to the bottom, you take clear haze free beer off the top and put it in your keg. There is almost nothing that any of the brewing additives or process aids do, that cant eventually be achieved with time and gravity - its just a matter of whether you have the time, patience and tank space to wait long enough.

I just flipped through Michael Jackson's "Great Beer Guide" - the lowest recommended serving temperature out of 500 beers featured - was 9C for the lightest beers, with 10-15 for the majority of the ales with any colour -- up to 18 (max) for a Chimay Grand Reserve.

Distinctly less chill haze at 9 than at the 2 or 3 a lot of people are pouring at.

 

[Pete2501]

TB is right Manticle. You should let me drink your beer instead.

 

[katzke]

... everyone gets a bit of chill haze, because mostly we all drink our beers too damn cold. We chill them down to the levels that high adjunct mega lagers are served... and they all have lower protein levels and still get chill haze unless they are treated anyway.

The reason mega beer is served cold is because it tastes awful when served at the correct temperature. The cold kills the flavor.

One reason why I enjoy what most people think of as warm beer. It tastes better.

 

[Hutch]

Also agree with TB here. I've polyclared before, but don't like the extra step and potential way to screw up a brew. I recently forgot the whirlfloc in a Dortmunder, and it was cloudy as milk when I kegged it. 1 month lagering at -1deg made it crystal clear with no filtering at all. OK, so it takes time and low temps, but for lagers, this is preferable anyway.