Automating A Brewery

[ArnieW]

Arnie, that is very cool!

Hi Pedro, welcome to the beerporn peepshow!


I heard back from the folks at LabJack. Apparently the LabJack U3 would be the go:
http://www.labjack.com/labjack_u3.php?prodId=25

It has 16 analog/digital IOs plus 4 digital IOs, and sells for US$99.

They seem pretty confident that the free DaqFactory Express software that comes with it will do the trick nicely.

Probe-wise, the options are:

EI-1034, sensor in stainless probe, US$49
EI-1022, sensor in plastic probe, US$29.

However they suggested I could look at the data sheets for the probes, source the core sensors, and make up the probes myself.

It looks like the probes can hook up directly to the LabJack, I just need some wotsits to go between the labjack and the mains relays for the outputs.

The ProfiLab software that Ocean Controls sells is nothing to do with the LabJack folks by the looks of it, which suggests that at least this LabJack stuff is a fairly open standard.

Ocean Controls also sells a similar device, not LabJack brand but I would imagine very similar, called iUSBDAQ:
http://oceancontrols.com.au/data_acquisiti...usb/iusbdaq.htm.
They've got it for $149 plus GST but apparently it sells for $79 in the states, 20% less than the LJ U3.

There's more information (and some cool screenshots) on the iUSBDAQ here in a 1.8Mb PDF:
http://www.hytekautomation.com/Downloads/i...6_UserGuide.pdf

Does anyone fancy sussing that one out for value / features?

Hi Wortgames,

the labjack looks pretty good. I had a browse of the manual, and although the examples were in C (not a language I understand) it looks as though it will be capable of automating the brewery.

I didn't download the code samples, so I can't give you a detailed response.

Regarding probes, I wouldn't waste my money. $5 or so for an LM35, a bit of wire and connection to the labjack with 12 bit analog resolution should give you better than 0.1 deg resolution (providing your voltages are stable). As far as casing goes, it can be as simple as a length of copper pipe that is plugged at the business end. You can buy end caps (either flared types or solder), or you can do something even simpler - clean the end of the pipe (esp inside), flux it, squash it closed in a vice, and then solder, making sure the solder wicks into the compressed part. Cheap and reliable.

If you are looking for a source of good cheap solid state relays, look no further than:
Oatley Electronics - SSR1

For the price, it's difficult finding a relay to do the same job :super:

cheers, Arnie

 

[bugwan]

Just thought I'd dredge up one of my favourite threads!

I'm interested in monitoring temps (ambient, fermenter and fridge eventually) via a PC and running this to a website. I have thoroughly read through Greg Lemis' site: http://www.lemis.com/grog/brewing/temperature-control.html and I'm electronically capable of achieving this (I think!).

I want to do this on a real budget, so I was wondering what people thought of using a digital multimeter (with RS232) to capture temps to a PC? Jaycar have these for less than $50, which is quite a bit cheaper than any other ideas... **EDIT: I think a post from Zizzle has sorted me out above. The only issue of course would be that multimeters run on batteries!!

I'd love some feedback. Otherwise, have a read through the thread, if you haven't before - really great stuff.

 

[Zizzle]

I've probably said this earlier in the thread, but if you are handy with a soldering iron, got to their web site, sign up and send a request to Dallas Semi conductor for some free samples of the DS1820.

The build the circuit on this page http://www.linuxfocus.org/English/November...rticle315.shtml. It is small enough to be built into the back of a 9-pin D-shell with no circuit board.

Too easy, costs about $10.

 

[Tony]

A couple of quick points to add from me

I have an Allen Bredley Micrologix 1000 at home and am planing on some automation using citect of some other SCADA system.

The motorised valve idea is great. It could be timed for flow control id recon. I currently use solenoids on a couple of parts of my brew rig and they work fine for simple on/off control.

Another piece of equipment i want to aquire is a small (1/2") strait through flow meter. With this i figure i can use the flow to sense when i have enough water in my mash, shut the valve from the HLT and comence the mash cycle, ring alarms if the mash sticks (low flow) etc, etc.

The entire process could be fully run without having to go and look at it.

Wireless conection to the PLC from a laptop in the lounge room while watching the cricket.

you could set up alarms to warn of iminent hop additions....... oh the posabilities are endless.

Just progressed in jobs from electrician/technician to Process Control Engineer so once i get the parts........ its on.

does anyone know of an affordable flow meter? I have briefly looked into it but the prices were scary.

cheers

 

[ArnieW]

A couple of quick points to add from me

I have an Allen Bredley Micrologix 1000 at home and am planing on some automation using citect of some other SCADA system.

The motorised valve idea is great. It could be timed for flow control id recon. I currently use solenoids on a couple of parts of my brew rig and they work fine for simple on/off control.

Another piece of equipment i want to aquire is a small (1/2") strait through flow meter. With this i figure i can use the flow to sense when i have enough water in my mash, shut the valve from the HLT and comence the mash cycle, ring alarms if the mash sticks (low flow) etc, etc.

The entire process could be fully run without having to go and look at it.

Wireless conection to the PLC from a laptop in the lounge room while watching the cricket.

you could set up alarms to warn of iminent hop additions....... oh the posabilities are endless.

Just progressed in jobs from electrician/technician to Process Control Engineer so once i get the parts........ its on.

does anyone know of an affordable flow meter? I have briefly looked into it but the prices were scary.

cheers

Ahhh, it's like an old friend has returned. Thanks Bugwan for reigniting the flame of this thread.

Tony, have you thought of a level sensor in the mash tun rather than calculation based on flow? My system uses a simple sensor (like those windscreen water sensors) to tell me when a particular level (like strike level in the mash tun) has been reached.

Just a couple of bucks for the parts and anything you like for the probe/sensor in the tun. I've used both stainless bolts and brass wire as sensors.

The circuit that currently has my attention can be found at: www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_30607/printArticle.html

This one is good for an analog input.

If you want a digital input, I can help you with a circuit for that.

cheers, Arnie

 

[ArnieW]

Hi Zizzle,

I'd not come across those data loggers before - a good price and good entry point for automation.

A good question about knowing when to stop the motor. What I tested the other day was that there was enough torque to drive the gate - and I have no doubt that mechanically this is a good solution.

The next bit of R&D is working out the control of it. The simplest solution would be to turn on the motor for a set amount of time (at the moment about 8 secs) to fully open or close the gate valve. Because it is driven by a belt, my guess is that you could actually drive it for a longer time (say 8.5 secs) to ensure it is fully open or closed. Once the valve reaches a limit, the belt slips (a natural clutch). This effectively calibrates the valve every time you reach a limit (fully open or fully closed).

Then if you want to open it 50%, you turn the motor on for 4 seconds. You only recalibrate every time you close it fully or open it fully.

If that fails, the next step would be to put a pot on the gate valve stem. I've attached a picture with the concept.

View attachment 9411

The pot (on left) could have a pulley with rubber wheel that is driven directly from the stem of the gate valve. It might need to be recalibrated from time to time, but hopefully would be quite accurate. The pot position would indicate the gate valve position.

If there is too much slippage (ie. requires recalibration too often to be useful), the next step would be to have a gear or chain linkage between stem and pot to ensure there is no slippage.

I think I'll get the chance to test this on Monday. I'll let you know how it goes.

Arnie

An update on this one.

The gate valve and control circuitry is all in a nice box now and working reliably. I'm very happy with this one, although too busy building the actual brew structure to be focussed on control for the moment.

What I've discovered is that valve position feedback is not needed, so to keep it simple, valve position is determined by the time the motor is energised. I've used my favourite controller the picaxe and some simple code to get it working.

Anyway, here is a picture.



It operates much like my power window in the car. A single press of a button will either fully open or close the gate. A second press will make it stop where it currently is.

The unit I've made has a serial control line attached so it can tell a computer its position, or be directed to a position by the PC.

But that's just because I'm a control freak

cheers, Arnie

 

[ArnieW]

And another pic:



The red and black buttons are push buttons for open and close. The LED on each side gives an indication of open and close and will flash while operating.

 

[bugwan]

Great work Arnie!

Damn I love this thread...!

EDIT: I have just come back from Jaycar after making some purchases. I am hoping to put together some temp monitoring gear on a serious budget. For those interested, here is the site (thanks Zizzle) I am basing my project on.

I have become a 'member' at the Maxim/Dallas Semiconductor website and ordered four free samples of their temp sensors (DS18S20).
Other components include a 1.5kOhm resistor, 4 diodes and a serial port (D9) socket. The whole lot came to $6.25!

I'll post back when I find my soldering iron! I love the idea of checking temps remotely...plus I can keep a log of fermentation temps to perhaps explain variations in final taste tests. I've never exactly reproduced a brew, perhaps my temps are always different?

 

[Tony]

Beer Porn !!!

I thought about this but i would like to beable to have recipe files in a PLC program and select what im making.

It will do the rest.

Thats why i need flow.

I will keep looking......... i havnt looked very hard so far. I am happy with my rig as a manual job but in the long temp id like to do this.

cheers

 

[browndog]

All this electronics talk is way over a sheeties head, but it you used a level sensor on your mash tun, would not the varying amounts of grain throw this out ?

cheers

Browndog

 

[ArnieW]

All this electronics talk is way over a sheeties head, but it you used a level sensor on your mash tun, would not the varying amounts of grain throw this out ?

cheers

Browndog

Hi Browndog,

If you use a fixed sensor that would be right. The first sensor I used I could raise or lower to take this into account. Now I use a fixed one. I'm not overly fussed with slightly different ratios, so I don't find it a problem.

There are other ways of overcoming this as well - like ultrasonic sensors or pressure sensors. Still, I'm happy with a fixed sensor - keeps it simple.

cheers

 

[randyrob]

was thinking something like this to automate my brew rig

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/USB-adaptor-for-ana...VQQcmdZViewItem

 

[Jye]

was thinking something like this to automate my brew rig

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/USB-adaptor-for-ana...VQQcmdZViewItem

Sorry guys I havn't read the entire thread, but has anyone tried use a PICAXE? I've just start playing with a PICAXE-18A chip which has 5 inputs and 8 outputs, its also very easy to program using flow diagrams. Ive been thinking how to automate upto the kettle so I can wake up and be ready to boil... long term plan <_<

Edit - OK Ive read the thread and it looks like Arnie has already been using them.

 

[randyrob]

Heya Jye,

i think a fair few guys do it that way.

here's some code i've been cutting:

 

[ArnieW]

was thinking something like this to automate my brew rig

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/USB-adaptor-for-ana...VQQcmdZViewItem

Hi Randyrob,

looks ok at a glance. Have you figured out in detail what you want the machine to do? I think that is the starting point myself - then figure out how to do it (ie. what you actually need). With those analog inputs, you can use LM35 temp sensors or thyristors, but not a digital probe like the DS18B20. If you used LM35s, you would probably want to amplify the output as well.

There are many ways to approach this kind of thing, and the WASP is not unlike the DSE parallel port interface that I first started with.

My main reason for using the picaxe is that I can embed intelligent process control in the machine - and not have to rely on the PC. I've had a few nasty PC crashes at inconvenient times before. With my new rig it will be both stand alone and allow PC control.

cheers, Arnie

 

[Zizzle]

Right on Arnie.

I'm actually sitting here hacking code on my Atmel Atmega128 based control board for my brewery. I have some PIC P16F628a chips floating around here also, but the AVR gear costs about the same and kicks the PICs in performance and features.

I scored a 240x64 pixel backlit lcd today for nix. Should be able to draw some pretty status updates with that.

So I'm accumulating stuff.
Got some second hand triacs for switching mains. DS1820s of course. 433MHz radio modules for sending wireless updates to/from a PC. Ultrasonic transducers for liquid levels (I have since found that you can get sealed transducers to deal with the humid environment), although the capacitive level sensing idea looks great. March pump waiting to go.

But I still haven't sorted out my actuated valves yet. And a DC supply for whatever drives them. Maybe some electric window motors from the wreckers.

 

[pokolbinguy]

Holy cow Zizzle next thing you will be able to brew from the touch of a button on your mobile phone. I'm completely lost with all this but thats because I have no idea what all the codes and names etc mean. However sounds like a great idea. and I can't wait to hear about the results. The days when I might be able to brew from my computer while knocking back a few are a long way away but may be close for you guys.

Good luck and hope it all comes together well.

Pok

 

[ArnieW]

Right on Arnie.

I'm actually sitting here hacking code on my Atmel Atmega128 based control board for my brewery. I have some PIC P16F628a chips floating around here also, but the AVR gear costs about the same and kicks the PICs in performance and features.

I scored a 240x64 pixel backlit lcd today for nix. Should be able to draw some pretty status updates with that.

So I'm accumulating stuff.
Got some second hand triacs for switching mains. DS1820s of course. 433MHz radio modules for sending wireless updates to/from a PC. Ultrasonic transducers for liquid levels (I have since found that you can get sealed transducers to deal with the humid environment), although the capacitive level sensing idea looks great. March pump waiting to go.

But I still haven't sorted out my actuated valves yet. And a DC supply for whatever drives them. Maybe some electric window motors from the wreckers.

Good work zizzle,

That LCD is a good score. I'd be interested in how you go with the wireless stuff. I've only heard of people using those modules for one-way comms, and alternate two-way systems (bluetooth, wifi etc) seem pretty expensive. I still dream of having a wifi machine. B)

Good to hear about sealed ultrasonics as well. I think they should do the job nicely.

As for DC power supply, I think the simplest is an old PC supply scrounged from a surplus machine. You get lots of current at 12V, 5V, 3.3V and even a bit at -5V and -12V. I'm using one with a bit of extra filtering to drive power gear (motors and relays etc.) at 12V, and control (microprocessors) at 5V.

cheers, ARnie

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

http://www.sparkfun.com


I bought my bluetooth stuff from them that allows me to wirelessly talk to my AVR stuff. I still don't have a bootloader installed, but when that happens, the world will be a better place... They also have some quite cheap ZigBee stuff if Bluetooth doesn't do it for you.

 

[GDSever]

Little by little I have been developing a VBExpress (VB2005, or whatever) user interface platform for automating home breweries... Some recent screenshots are at the end of this blog entry:

http://firststatebrewers.com/blog/2007/05/...day-activities/

It still has a long way to go before it is functional, but once completed I intend on making it open source and letting anyone use it. Right now its mostly just the component rendering code, but I have slowly been developing the framework for controlling events and sequencing them as well. My hope is that it'll be easy enough to use that anyone can do it - so long as they can handle the electronics side of things