Apple Cider Sweetness

[Sportygirl]

My first brew of apple cider (LHB kit - nothing extra) has been fermenting for 10 days and is currently at 1.008 G, but it doesn't taste sweet enough for my liking. Is it too late to add some lactose? I was going to bottle this weekend (3 days away). How much lactose should I add?

 

[RdeVjun]

Hi & welcome,
I haven't done this but I'd guess its feasible.

You could try adding a bit at a time over the next few days until hopefully you hit the right level of sweetness before you plan to bottle. Add say 50 or 100g to some boiling water, say at least a cupful, carefully pour it into your fermenter and stir gently with a well- sanitised stirrer- thingamy. Not sure if I'd actually boil lactose, but you want it to be spankingly clean, as does your handling with the lid/ film off the fermernter.

They do ferment down pretty dry the straight kits, a few similar reports around in here somewhere and various methods to counteract it, although for my upcoming few batches I haven't really decided what to do about it. Definately won't be using the champagne yeast they come with, its a shocker.

 

[Sportygirl]

Hi & welcome,
I haven't done this but I'd guess its feasible.

You could try adding a bit at a time over the next few days until hopefully you hit the right level of sweetness before you plan to bottle. Add say 50 or 100g to some boiling water, say at least a cupful, carefully pour it into your fermenter and stir gently with a well- sanitised stirrer- thingamy. Not sure if I'd actually boil lactose, but you want it to be spankingly clean, as does your handling with the lid/ film off the fermernter.

They do ferment down pretty dry the straight kits, a few similar reports around in here somewhere and various methods to counteract it, although for my upcoming few batches I haven't really decided what to do about it. Definately won't be using the champagne yeast they come with, its a shocker.

Thanks for that - I'll give it a go! (Without telling BH of course - he only let me make it 'cause I promised I wouldn't make a sweet one!!)

 

[Airgead]

I know its a bit late for this batch but yeast selection is probably a better way of controlling the sweetness.

A wine yeast will ferment it out bone dry (the way I like it).
An ale yeast (or a cider yeast like wyeast 3766) will ferment to about 1006-1010 or thereabouts (where the missus likes it).
You can also get sweet cider yeasts (WLP720 or one of the low attenuating English ale yeasts) which will finish higher still.

Cheers
Dave

 

[itguy1953]

My first brew of apple cider (LHB kit - nothing extra) has been fermenting for 10 days and is currently at 1.008 G, but it doesn't taste sweet enough for my liking. Is it too late to add some lactose? I was going to bottle this weekend (3 days away). How much lactose should I add?

Just watch adding Lactose late in the ferment as it is partially fermentable. You might make bottle bombs if you are not careful.

To work out how much to add, draw off 250ml from the fermenter and add a half teaspoon of Lactose, and sip. Add additional 1/2tsps until it is sweet enough. Then scale up the additions for your batch size.

Barry

 

[Airgead]

Just watch adding Lactose late in the ferment as it is partially fermentable. You might make bottle bombs if you are not careful.

To work out how much to add, draw off 250ml from the fermenter and add a half teaspoon of Lactose, and sip. Add additional 1/2tsps until it is sweet enough. Then scale up the additions for your batch size.

Barry

Its unlikely to cause bombs... lactose is pretty much unfermentable which is why its used to back sweeten finished brews.

Cheers
Dave

 

[leroy_brown]

My first brew of apple cider (LHB kit - nothing extra) has been fermenting for 10 days and is currently at 1.008 G, but it doesn't taste sweet enough for my liking. Is it too late to add some lactose? I was going to bottle this weekend (3 days away). How much lactose should I add?

I've just bottled my first batch of cider as well! I used a Blackrock kit with a wine yeast and kilo of white sugar. The guy at my LHBS suggested sweetening with lactose after the primary ferment is done.
The method:
After racking-off, drain 200mL into a glass and chill, add lactose a half-teaspoon at a time until desired sweetness is achieved. Then calculate how many teaspoons this would be for the whole batch, weigh it out, dissolve in some boiling water (all he specified was "not too much" so I guess use common sense. I used about 300mL.) then add to the cider and stir thoroughly with a sanitised spoon as suggested above.

I weighed the lactose powder to be roughly 4g/ teaspoon, a bit of searching around the webernets found this to be about right. I also put in a small bottle of apple schnapps essence at the friendly storemans suggestion to give the cider a really sweet apple aroma, if that interests you. It's subtle once mixed into 22L of cider, but quite effective!

I did have trouble dissolving the lactose though, so anyone have suggestions to help this?

 

[leroy_brown]

Whoops, the guy above me just beat me too it! :lol:

 

[Bizier]

Welcome Sportygirl.

 

[Sportygirl]

Thanks for the welcome and the responses guys! Some great ideas - I'll try the teaspoon, sip it and see technique. By my reckoning, in about 21 litres, it will probably be about 250 gm of lactose. Love the Apple Schnapps idea! Yum!!

 

[hayden]

hmm i might give the lactose a go. i just put down a cider/perry had a decent amount of sugar in it ontop of the juice.

 

[pdilley]

With my LHBS Black Rock Cider Kit. I went the easiest route possible.

I pour pure ALDI apple juice into a glass and then I pour the Black Rock cider on top and mix for serving to SWMBO. More intense apple flavour, sweet as SWMBO likes it, an be adjusted out to my taste with less apple juice if I want any.

I loathe to post SG ranges as everyones tastes regarding sweetness are different but I trust in Jack Keller's recommendations / competition regulations:

Competition Rule #4: Dry wines must have a specific gravity of 1.007 or less.
Competition Rule #5: Sweet wines should have a specific gravity of 1.008 to 1.025.

That would put 1008 on the edge of dry and beginning edge of semi-sweet. (No differentiation is made between where semi-sweet ends and sweet begins)

The easiest long term method to use when you get stuck into making it over and over is
o determine the Alcohol % you want in your finished cider to have, higher means hot alc. flavours needing longer aging in bottles before drinking
o adjust the must up or down but adding more water or more fermentable sugar source to get the SG hydrometer reading in the zone for that Alc%
o if you were accurate in your sugar calculations, the specific gravity should dip as low as .990 after a few months
o Decision: if wanting a still cider or will keg and carbonate, stabilize first and then add apple juice to desired TG for more flavour and sweetness
o Decision: if wanting a bottle carbonated/conditioned cider, back sweeten with non fermentable sweetener, then prime for bottling according to desired carbonation level with a fermentable sugar

OT:
Hey Dave,
The Sweet Mead yeast left the most residual on the BBRadio podcast. Dry Mead must have been wine yeast as it fermented out the hottest. English and Scottish Ales left rubber-band twang and US-05 of all things came out on top. Give it a go next time.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[Sportygirl]

o Decision: if wanting a bottle carbonated/conditioned cider, back sweeten with non fermentable sweetener, then prime for bottling according to desired carbonation level with a fermentable sugar

Hey Brewer Pete,

You're obviously a "Pro" and I'm a beginner - I assume when you say "back sweeten" you mean to put the lactose in after fermentation has stopped and before bottling, or should it be put in at the start?
:unsure:
Like the idea of making it a "his/hers" by just pouring the cider on top of the juice for the sweet-tooth!

 

[Sportygirl]

With my LHBS Black Rock Cider Kit. I went the easiest route possible.

I pour pure ALDI apple juice into a glass and then I pour the Black Rock cider on top and mix for serving to SWMBO. More intense apple flavour, sweet as SWMBO likes it, an be adjusted out to my taste with less apple juice if I want any.

BTW Pete - what is "SWMBO"? obviously refers to your good lady other half, but scratching my head to work it out! (Get ready for the "DOH" when you explain....)

 

[Sportygirl]

Its unlikely to cause bombs... lactose is pretty much unfermentable which is why its used to back sweeten finished brews.

Cheers
Dave

I re-read your response from yesterday Airgead and realised you already answered the question I just put to Brewer Pete. I should slow down and read more thoroughly!

 

[Adamt]

SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed.

 

[Sportygirl]

SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed.

DOH!!

 

[Katherine]

DOH!!

Ha it was my first question also! Welcome to AHB... set your location so we know where you are! You will learn heaps from these guys!

Cheers
Katie

 

[staggalee]

I think he`s having a loan of you there, as far as I know it`s She Who Must Bend Over.
But I could be wrong. :huh:

stagga.

 

[Katherine]

I think he`s having a loan of you there, as far as I know it`s She Who Must Bend Over.
But I could be wrong. :huh:

stagga.

also have you discovered the ignore button? :icon_cheers: