Amateur Vrs ?

[haysie]

is vicbrew a real "amateur" competition? it was won by a commercial brewery employee

i think the rules are all wrong re. employees of breweries and thats my opinion, i think vicbrew and onwards needs to set a structured eligbilty base and make it more accountable. No sour grapes, just throwing it out there. I can see an uproar if Vic was too win the Nationals, and justifiably so.

 

[dig]

is vicbrew a real "amateur" competition? it was won by a commercial brewery employee

i think the rules are all wrong re. employees of breweries and thats my opinion, i think vicbrew and onwards needs to set a structured eligbilty base and make it more accountable. No sour grapes, just throwing it out there. I can see an uproar if Vic was too win the Nationals, and justifiably so.

What advantage would the commercial guy have? Knowledge? passion? I think it's great. Hopefully she/he can effect worthwhile change at her/his place of work.

 

[haysie]

What advantage would the commercial guy have? Knowledge? passion? I think it's great. Hopefully she/he can effect worthwhile change at her/his place of work.

This isnt a place of work, passion? we all have that! i question the knowledge?

 

[bradsbrew]

Well done to the person that won must have been a nice beer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Frank]

This isnt a place of work, passion? we all have that! i question the knowledge?

I thought it was general conscientious that commercial brewers in Australia couldn't make beer......, that's what I keep reading.
They must have put their entries in to make up numbers.

 

[haysie]

Well done to the person that won must have been a nice beer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It obviously was a pretty good beer. I dont trust in a national competition you would say it "beat the amateurs".

Dig, good luck at healsville fella.

 

[Gerard_M]

i question the knowledge?

Is knowledge a good or bad thing?

Cheers
Gerard

 

[haysie]

as i said "throw it out there"

lets see,

remember the topic

 

[dig]

Dig, good luck at healsville fella.

Thanks Haysie! Kai and I plan to crank out the most outstanding beer ever crafted in this country and as we both share a home brew background, a generation apart not withstanding, everyone is welcome to swing by for a chat, a pint and a look around.

 

[bconnery]

The rules for the AABC, and by extension the qualifying state comps, specifically refer to the brews being amateur, not the brewer, and that professional brewers brewing beers on equipment at home are most definitely not excluded.

A quick quote...
"This rule seeks to clarify the issue by referring to the beer itself. It
recognises that when a professional brewer goes home from work and brews non-commercial
beer as an amateur, then the beers they produce should be considered to be amateur brews."

 

[matti]

This topic was going around not long ago.....
My position is still the same.
As Bconnory says:
If the brew is made at home with what ever equipment is available to you and whatever knowledge you have it doesn't matter wether you are the brew master at a top notch brewery or a service station attendant.

Matti

 

[haysie]

The rules for the AABC, and by extension the qualifying state comps, specifically refer to the brews being amateur, not the brewer, and that professional brewers brewing beers on equipment at home are most definitely not excluded.

A quick quote...
"This rule seeks to clarify the issue by referring to the beer itself. It
recognises that when a professional brewer goes home from work and brews non-commercial
beer as an amateur, then the beers they produce should be considered to be amateur brews."

Fair enough, thanks for the clarity.
I, as a part time amateur brewer, it doesnt sit well with me. B ut I`ll wear it and move on

 

[chris.taylor.98]

Well I am fine with brewers who have commercial training and or knowledge entering in an amateur brewing contest, sure they will have some advantage due to the knowledge that gain from their workplace, but they still have to produce the goods.

Also I think there are many "amateur" brewers who would have equivalent and or better knowledge as applies to a home brew setup.

Think I would draw the line if they where actually using sophisticated commercial equipment to make their beer in ways that others could not readily replicate.

Anyway Haysie I presume that you are referring to the Best Of Show award. Think history will tell us, but is highly unlikely for an individual to consistently win this award regardless of their training or background.

Think that most competition brewers consider the Champion Brewer prize as the most sort after award ( and no that's not just because I won it this year ), and you do find that their are some individuals like John Strantzen, who can consistently win this award when they put their mind to it.

Note my opinions might all turn around if Thirsty Boy starts taking out the Champion Brewer award year on year , but really I think it is fantastic that there are so many talented brewers coming up through the ranks (amateur of otherwise) in the last couple of years.

It makes it that much more challenging, and drives us all further to trying to obtain the illusive goal of making the perfect beer.

 

[GMK]

This has been discussed in another thread.

I think the moderators should delete this.

 

[haysie]

Thanks Chris for a non ego reply.

The topic was never started too throw it at Thirsty, the topic was "amateurs"
I am sure Thirsty makes a good brew............ positive i hear.

I question where "us" stand? If i have to put my beer up against commercials/micros i dont see it as an amateur worthwhile competitition too enter.
I did speak too a few guys last nite whom wernt happy re. competing on those terms.
I do think National , if won by Vic will be hard for people too accept.


GMK. moderate yourself mate

 

[Murcluf]

The rules for the AABC, and by extension the qualifying state comps, specifically refer to the brews being amateur, not the brewer, and that professional brewers brewing beers on equipment at home are most definitely not excluded.

A quick quote...
"This rule seeks to clarify the issue by referring to the beer itself. It
recognises that when a professional brewer goes home from work and brews non-commercial
beer as an amateur, then the beers they produce should be considered to be amateur brews."

I know and understand that you are judging the beer not the brewer.... but my wife was just reading this thread and came up with some good observation which I wish to share....

If a pro golfer who plays on the pro circuit and comes home in the off-season and wants to have a round in the local club amateur comp does that make him an amatuer in that comp or is he still a pro?
or
What if a professional chef came home and cooked a meal does that mean he is an amateur chef when he is at home?

mmm...... can of worms

As she also said there are so many different factors that go into making a beer

Maybe it should not be called "amateur" beer but perhap "Non-Commercially Produced Beers for Private Consumption only not brewed at any Commerical premises or with any Commerical equipment and by someone who has no connections what so ever to any Commerical Brewery of any nature"

Then at the next State comp they can judge the only 3 beers entered across the 14 categories

The victories are always sweeter when you know you have knocked off someone who has stacks more expereince then you, thats one of the joys of brewing for comps. and Thats coming from a rank Amateur

 

[haysie]

What quantifies an entry? that was done earlier by bconnerry,.

What quantifies a reg entry? that was done.. Unless your real good, dont waste your time!

 

[chris.taylor.98]

Thanks Chris for a non ego reply.

The topic was never started too throw it at Thirsty, the topic was "amateurs"
I am sure Thirsty makes a good brew............ positive i hear.

I question where "us" stand? If i have to put my beer up against commercials/micros i dont see it as an amateur worthwhile competitition too enter.
I did speak too a few guys last nite whom wernt happy re. competing on those terms.
I do think National , if won by Vic will be hard for people too accept.


GMK. moderate yourself mate

Sorry Haysie if I have got the wrong end of the stick here mate.

Did not think you where having a go at any individuals, and I probably should not have mentioned individuals myself, nor was I meaning to have a go at anyone myself.

Guess all I am saying is that I don't really see there being an "us" (not commercially experienced brewers) and "them" (those with commercial knowledge). I mean aren't we all constrained by the same limitations, also there is nothing stopping amateurs spending many thousands of dollars on automated systems that would come close to the type of consistency and quality that some of the commercials can produce (and I do know some that have done just that).

Think we also need to recognize that there is more than just the technical aspects involved, so there is also an artistic quality involved which I do not believe can be trained into individuals.

Other food for though is that we regularly have tasting events at club meets where members all brew the same style, and there is usually a commercial control added in. Its very rare that the control comes out on top against all the homebrew entries.

Guess what I am saying is that it is not a hopeless quest competing against anyone in these competitions regardless of their background and ability.

Had a friend that brewed his first batch of extract ( in fact I actually bought all the ingredients for him, but was not involved at all in the brewing ) entered it in his first contest and got a 2nd place.

 

[Darren]

Of course you would also need to assess judging panels and their memory for particular brewers beers. If your particular panel consists of judges who regularly taste a certain brewers beers they become familiar with that flavour. If they are friends they will score highly, if not lowly.
I only know this from personal experience as I can clearly pick two South Aussie brewers beers in a flight having only tasted them once a year (very distinctive flavours to me).

Having said that I am sure that there is no bias going on with what Haysie is suggesting.

cheers

Darren

EDIT: Not a gambling man but bet $10 the judges have tasted the winning brewers beers more than twice!!

 

[kook]

is vicbrew a real "amateur" competition? it was won by a commercial brewery employee

i think the rules are all wrong re. employees of breweries and thats my opinion, i think vicbrew and onwards needs to set a structured eligbilty base and make it more accountable. No sour grapes, just throwing it out there. I can see an uproar if Vic was too win the Nationals, and justifiably so.

Are mechanics excluded from amateur car competitions?

This has been debated several times, and the rules remain the same. The majority of people have no issue with a professional brewer entering beers that are made at home.

We should be thankful that professional brewers embrace the homebrew community so well, often volunteering their time judging, helping out homebrewers at club meetings or even just sharing their knowledge. There are numerous on this board who share their knowledge, even sometimes share their businesses intellectual property (recipes) for the greater good of beer.

There aren't many industries that work like this. Exclusion is the last thing we need as far as I'm concerned.