All Grain Vs Kit?

[bekhenry]

I'd like to try an all grain brew - i've only ever used kit beer - what are the benifits of all grain?
Please excuse me if this is a dumb question.... i am blonde

Bek

 

[Stuster]

Right. Bit of a can of worms there. Personally, I found my beers tasted much better when I switched to all grain (AG). It does depend on the style, with kits and some added extras being fine for some styles. There's a lot more work though, more equipment, etc. If you want to have a go, the first step is to have a read of How to brew and then come back with all the questions you have, do some searches, post some questions, see another local brewer do it, and then you'll be ready to start.

 

[mika]

As Stuster has mentioned, read, read, read. You are actively encouraged to attend brew days and Christmas case swaps, there you can taste the All Grain difference and decide if it's right for you.
Fill in your location too, there may be someone just down the road who's happy to have some company while watching the wort bubble in the pot.

 

[braufrau]

It might be worth starting with a partial. That way you can do the whole mash and boil process without investing a lot
of money in equipment. Then you can sit back and think about how you'd go all grain.

Look at this threa and the links in it.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...t=0&start=0

Also you might want to read the Brew in a Bag (BIAB) thread as an alternative way to get into AG.

 

[Maxt]

If all you have ever eaten is McDonalds, then McDonalds tastes good. Once you have eaten at a good restaurant a few times, your tastes buds get educated. You can still eat McDonalds, but you taste the flaws and short comings.
You can still get bad all grain beer (go to a club competition and see what I mean), but it is usually fresher, tastier and without the kit beer extract 'twang'.
Horse for courses. All Grain is not for everyone. It takes a lot of time and is outrageously addictive.

 

[bekhenry]

Thanks guys - i better start reading!
I thought you didnt need a lot of equipment for all grain!?
I live in near sutherland (sydney) If anybody is around i'd love the help!

Bek

 

[homebrewworld.com]

Sounds like you need to try EzyBrew 'Fresh Wort' or similar.
All grain solution to kit brew blues !
Unashamed plug,

 

[goatherder]

Don't worry about the plug, that's a good call homebrewworld.com.

Try a fresh wort kit. Brew it as you would a kit, but it's a real live AG beer. See if you like the difference.

They are available from any respectable home brew shop.

Another difference with AG beers that isn't about taste or quality - there are some beers you just can't brew with a kit. Very pale pilsners for example. The process used for producing the malt extract in kits tends to darken the colour a little. If you want a really pale beer, AG is the only way.

 

[Aaron]

A fresh wort kit may help you produce a better beer but it isn't going to help you to get to all grain brewing. The procedure is more basic and more like making cordial than a regular kit beer is. Read "Hot to Brew" and have a go at a partial mash if you are really interested in grain brewing. You probably have the equipment for a partial at home.

 

[homebrewworld.com]

Aaron : 'The procedure is more basic and more like making cordial than a regular kit beer is'.

I Agree its very basic, but hey we are not making cordial or regular beer here!

 

[dr K]

oK...you need some experience watching and talking to others.
You need equipment.
Now lets say you work on 22litre standard batches.

1.You will need something to mash in.
2.You will need something to lauter in.
3.You will need something to boil in
4.you will need something to boil your wort.
5.You will need a way to (ideally) quickly chill your finished wort.
6.You will some thing to ferment in.
7.You will need something to package in.

Presumably you have 6 and 7 covered already.
1. and 2. can be done in the same vessel so lets look at that first.
Mash/Lauter Tun
Buy a cheap 22-25 litre "esky" like device for $18 -$22.
Buy a 150mm long externally threaded 19mm brass tube (I think they are called nipples lord knows why), a decent valve to go on the outisde, some aluminium flyscreen to make a filter and a t-thing, as well as some nuts and washes.
Fit the nipple assembly with tap to the esky via a whole you drilled and hey presto a $35 mash tun.
Batch sparge and hey double pesto a $35 mash lauter tun.

Of course if you chose the path of the BIAB then you can skip this step and $35 (plus labour) in the kitty. You will need to factor in a swiss voile bag, what 2 meters at what $15 a meter =$30 plus again labour (I drill holes well but I do not double stitch well!!)

Something to boil in
A quality aluminium stock pot will give you far better service than a cheap SS one. An Al pot is easy to work and easy to move and will not give you alzheimers, its heat transfer is better to boot, your choice though.
How big, well 22litres will be the result of boiling down about 27 litres of wort, you do not want a boil over so go for 36 - 40 litre pot, no idea of price guessing $100.
You need another tap and such, say $110.
Of course if you go the BIAB route you may need a larger vessel, 35 + litres of water plus 4.5 kg or more grain just aint gunna fit !!

To Boil it
I bought a 2 ring burner C/W hose and regulator from the markets a few weeks ago for $20, you need a gas cylinder and gas, else buy a heat stick for $80 (good long term investment).

A way to Cool your wort
10 years ago an immersion chiller was the easy option, and thats what I got, bot from scratch buy a plate heat exchanger, one of the sites sponsors has them and they are only round $100 ish. A lot of people on this site use no chill, I would not, but for your first few batches..why not

Assuming you are happy to buy freshly cracked grain, or have a mate who will crack for you all up costs are :


Tun or Bag: $ 30-35 (parts only)
Boiler: $ 110 - $150 (parts only depending on volume)
Burner: $ 20 - $ 90 (depending on markets or choice)
Cooler: $ 0 - $150 (your choice)

Either way less than $ 200 if you dare to tread the path of no chill and second hand burners.
Oh, in case you are wondering, even after this investment your beers will cost $ more per glass than kits....

K

 

[devo]

Personally I found AG to be a lot more fun and interesting than simply opening a can of goo.

 

[Aaron]

I Agree its very basic, but hey we are not making cordial or regular beer here!

I wasn't trying to say anything about your product. I wouldn't know the first thing about it to make any comments. The point I am making is that if you want to get into grain brewing making a wort kit is not going to assist you in making the transition as it is a more basic procedure than kit beers. I would say it is a step backwards if you want to learn to brew.

 

[matti]

kit= 30-45 minutes with limitations to what you can brew
AG= 4-9 hour FUN with unlimited choice of what you can brew.

Aahhh the romance of brewing and I have just began,.

 

[goatherder]

I wasn't trying to say anything about your product. I wouldn't know the first thing about it to make any comments. The point I am making is that if you want to get into grain brewing making a wort kit is not going to assist you in making the transition as it is a more basic procedure than kit beers. I would say it is a step backwards if you want to learn to brew.

Fair point, but the original question was "what are the benefits?", not "how do I do AG?". The fresh wort kits were mentioned as a way to get a feel for what's possible if you take the next step.

 

[Aaron]

Fair point, but the original question was "what are the benefits?", not "how do I do AG?". The fresh wort kits were mentioned as a way to get a feel for what's possible if you take the next step.

Actually, the original poster said he would like to try an all grain brew. Fresh wort kits are not going to help them do an all grain brew.

 

[MVZOOM]

Oh, in case you are wondering, even after this investment your beers will cost $ more per glass than kits....

K

Good advice, aside from the last point. My AG's (ie.. the simple ones!) cost around $10 for grain, $6 for hops and $2 for yeast, and the power cost to use the immersion heater.

So $18.... been a while since I bought a kit, but thought that a good kit + DME or whatever would have been more than this?

Cheers - Mike

 

[joshuahardie]

Good advice, aside from the last point. My AG's (ie.. the simple ones!) cost around $10 for grain, $6 for hops and $2 for yeast, and the power cost to use the immersion heater.

So $18.... been a while since I bought a kit, but thought that a good kit + DME or whatever would have been more than this?

Cheers - Mike

I am guessing you are buying in bulk to get grain prices that low. My LHBS does not sell grain very cheap at all. It has made me doubt going into all grain, due to the added expense of grain over cans.

for it to be cost effective for me, I'll have to buy in bulk and invest in a mill..... so just another cost to factor.

 

[roger mellie]

I'd like to try an all grain brew - i've only ever used kit beer - what are the benifits of all grain?
Please excuse me if this is a dumb question.... i am blonde

Bek

Its Simple Bek - my 2 pesos worth.

All Grain Brewing gives you more control over what you are trying to brew and opens up a whole range of beers that you would struggle to make with goo. Gets you more involved with the science.

Doesnt mean you will make better beer
Doesnt mean you will make cheaper beer

Its fun though - get into it.

RM

 

[warra48]

With kits, you assemble beer. You don't do the brewing, as the kit maker has already done that for you.
With AG, you are the brewer, and you are totally in control of the style etc beer you want to brew.
Yup, there are costs involved in setting up for AG, but it's no more expensive than a lot of other hobbies/sport (I spend a hellavu lot more money on my golf than I ever do on my brewing).
Looked at it in that light, you need to make a decision whether you want to invest a few $C, and the time, to pursue a hobby which will in most cases give you the beer you want, and generally better beer.
Only you can make that decision for yourself.