AG Hoegaarden

[3G]

Id consider a cereal mash if you go 45% unmalted wheat.
Take the wheat with 250gm per kilo(of the wheat) of malt, sit at 50 for 20 mins, 66 for 30 mins then bring to boil and boil for 20 mins. Just did this with polenta and got 85% eff.
Id say go 1 gm per litre with the coriander seed and toast them and pound in mortar and pestle.
I m sure brewerires only use dried peel for convenience, imagine zest oranges daily for 1000 litre batches.

 

[KHB]

So what would happen if i didnt do a cereal mash?? Lower effiency??
Cheers

 

[3G]

Yeah, i really struggle with conversion with a wit. Add the oats to the wheat as well, maybe go 1.5gm per litre of coriander seeds

 

[jonw]

From what I've heard and read, you only need a cereal mash if your unmalted grains are not pre-gelatinised. If you're using rolled oats and torrified wheat, your unmalted grains _are_ gelatinised, so you don't need the separate mash. I would still use a stepped mash, with a stop at ~50 and ~66, and definitely use some rice hulls (I put 250g in my last 40L batch of wit, and runoff was still slow, but at least it didn't stick.)

I fermented mine with WY3944 at 20 degrees - have yet to keg it, so can't tell how how it turned out.

Cheers,

Jon

 

[KHB]

Yeah, i really struggle with conversion with a wit. Add the oats to the wheat as well, maybe go 1.5gm per litre of coriander seeds

Would you dry roast these before crushing??

 

[DiscoStu]

I posted a similar question [topic="36624"]here[/topic] a couple of weeks back and the advice I got was go for raw wheat to get a more authentic with, read the replies to my post from warrenlw63 about the mash for raw wheat and it not being as hard to handle as people think.

I'm hoping to brew this weekend, if my Belgian Blond ever finishes 1.009 and still going

(edited for spelling, brain not working - not enough caffeine)

 

[gap]

Would you dry roast these before crushing??

I did not bother dry roasting them.

Regards

Graeme

 

[Josh]

I use 300g of fresh zest of oranges, grapefruits, lemons and lime. It's a bit over the top, but very refreshing in the Summertime.

About 1g/L coriander and 0.5-1g/L hops at 15 mins for an added flavour also.

 

[Phoney]

KHB: Any feedback as to how this one went?

Ive got WLP400 sitting in the fridge itching to be used on a wit for summer.


Im thinking something along the lines of this:



BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Hoe in the Gaarden
Brewer: Sasha
Asst Brewer:
Style: Witbier
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 28.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 3.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 19.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.50 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 49.50 %
1.15 kg Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 22.77 %
1.15 kg Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 22.77 %
0.25 kg Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4.95 %
24.00 gm Hallertauer [5.90 %] (60 min) Hops 15.3 IBU
23.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.90 %] (20 min)Hops 4.4 IBU
25.00 gm Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
35.00 gm Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400) Yeast-Wheat


Mash Schedule: BIAB
Total Grain Weight: 5.05 kg
----------------------------
BIAB
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min BIAB Add 32.00 L of water at 68.6 C 66.0 C
10 min Mashout Add 0.00 L of water at 78.0 C 78.0 C


Notes:
------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Truman42]

Hey gents, keen to hear how these recipes turned out. Also do you guys put your coriander and orange peel in a hop sock or throw them in loose?

 

[Dan Pratt]

Hi Truman,

Ive just made my 4th Belgian Witbier for the year and am planning a 5th for xmas. Reading through the thread they sound like good beers.

I just throw the coriander and orange peel in with 5 mins to go with the boil, normally for a 20lt batch 10g of each.

A couple of things I do different is use Wyeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit at 20c, Raw wheat to 60% and Oats to 10% ( Pilsner fills the gap)

Its a refreshing beer style and from what i have read Hoegaarden use the FF yeast for their witbier.

Dan

 

[technobabble66]

So for the raw wheat & oats, have you just thrown them in the regular mash? Or do you cook/boil them first?
Is there a large difference between using raw & malted wheat?

 

[seamad]

I just use them raw, do a long ramp mash over 2 hours. Allow for 15% efficiency reduction though otherwise your numbers will be out. Raw wheat gives a more authentic flavour , more tangy ?

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

So for the raw wheat & oats, have you just thrown them in the regular mash? Or do you cook/boil them first?
Is there a large difference between using raw & malted wheat?

It depends on what type of raw wheat you are using. Raw wheat need to gelatinised to make the starches accessible. Things like flaked and torrified wheat have already been gelatinised. This can be used as normal in the mash.

Other raw wheats need to gelatinised before their starches can be converted to fermentable sugars. Luckily wheat gelatinises from 52-64C.

I use a step mash for my Wits. A acid rest that a rest that stops the raw wheat from gluing up and a protein rest that also helps with the gelatinisation of the wheat.

 

[NewtownClown]

Hi Truman,

Ive just made my 4th Belgian Witbier for the year and am planning a 5th for xmas. Reading through the thread they sound like good beers.

I just throw the coriander and orange peel in with 5 mins to go with the boil, normally for a 20lt batch 10g of each.

A couple of things I do different is use Wyeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit at 20c, Raw wheat to 60% and Oats to 10% ( Pilsner fills the gap)

Its a refreshing beer style and from what i have read Hoegaarden use the FF yeast for their witbier.

Dan

I like the sound of this.
Absolutely adore Forbidden Fruit and have some in the fridge....
Thanks Dan
Looks like the planned Saison will become a wit with FF!

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

from what i have read Hoegaarden use the FF yeast for their witbier.

From my research and tasting I am pretty sure that 3944 or WLP 400 were made from the Hoegaarden yeast

 

[Dan Pratt]

So for the raw wheat & oats, have you just thrown them in the regular mash? Or do you cook/boil them first?
Is there a large difference between using raw & malted wheat?

Techno - I used Raw wheat after trying flaked, torrified and malted. The Raw really improves the beer, i had previoulsy posted in another thread that i would change that but after finihsing the keg and bottles its staying in the recipe.... h34r: . Ive been step mashing on the BM, mashing in at 20c for about a 30 min hydration rest with the pump running and stopping at 40c/10, 52c/10 and going for a longer rest at 66c/90.

I have had lower efficiency % with the higher raw wheat content and would lower the raw wheat malt content to 50% for the next brew. I have found that the oats give a good smoothness to the finished beer.

Newtown - i havent tried one with the just the Belgian Witbier so i cant compare but the aroma from this yeast and the overall flavour of the beer give me no reason to not use it.

 

[technobabble66]

I'm looking at doing a K&K plus grains combo. So the grains element would be a kilo or so, made up of wheat, oats, & maybe carahell &/or vienna.
As the grains are a small quantity, i'm happy to dick around with some excessively complicated mash process. Well, at least more than the previous 2-step i did.

So, RB & seamad, what step regime did you use/recommend? 52°C for 30min, 65°C for 40min, 72°C for 10min 76°C mashout; etc?

Btw, i was going to use regular old rolled oats from the supermarket. Is this a "bad" idea?? I've just read a bit on torrified wheat & flaked oats. It sounds like they're quite different from basic raw wheat/oats


EDIT: pre-emptive answers from Pratty1. Thanks!

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

You would want you grain to be made up from wheat, oats and pilsner malt (rolled oats or quick oats are fine).
You need to have some base malt to provide the diastatic power to convert your wheat starches to fermentable sugars (you can't mash the wheat or oats by themselves).

If you can only do 1kg of grain, I would use 400g wheat, 400g pilsner and 200g oats.

The more grain you can use the better your final product will be as the more raw wheat you can use.

 

[seamad]

I dough in at 52 and ramp up to mashout over 2 - 2.5 hours, just set the pid. It was a technique that Tony used for wits. If I changed to a step mash I'd use my normal step of 52/62/72 mashout, but i like a dry finish. The mash regime you outlined would work fine, maybe drop the 52 to 20min, can leave the 65 at that if that's what you normally use/like as it's all personal preference.
Still drop your eff by 15% as the raw wheat takes a toll, but it's cheap and it's easy to add some water if you overshoot and just have a little more beer !
My missus asked me when I was making one, and she picked some coriander from the garden that had gone to seed and has it drying out for me so I'll have to brew one up soon.