A little help please with wiring up a PID

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Bogan333

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Sandgroper Brewing Co Ashfield Western Australia
Hi all,
Has anyone wired up a Ink Bird ITC-100 VH PID along with a SSR 25 and two switches one for the PID and one the Element?

The switches are 6 Pin ON-OFF-ON LED Rocker Switch

The first attachment it shows the SSR with pins 4 2 but with my SSR in the second attachment it has it as 4 1
3 1 3 2


I have checked around on youtube just a tad confused.

In the forth attachment is what I think it is.

If I'm wrong please anyone that knows how to wire to this configuration please send me a diagram.

Thank you
George Copley
[email protected]

Screenshot 2016-05-06 22.25.16.png


index.jpg


$_57.JPG


wiring pid.jpg
 
Hi George,

I think we should look into your bridging strategy on those 240V switches.

Where did you find that component? A quick peek at the data sheet confirms what needs to happen.

Edit: also, include the earth conductors on your sketch. That's the gem that saves your life.

Edit2: But I should have said that you've done pretty well mate.
 
georgecopley said:
Hi all,
Has anyone wired up a Ink Bird ITC-100 VH PID along with a SSR 25 and two switches one for the PID and one the Element?

The switches are 6 Pin ON-OFF-ON LED Rocker Switch

The first attachment it shows the SSR with pins 4 2 but with my SSR in the second attachment it has it as 4 1
3 1 3 2


I have checked around on youtube just a tad confused.

In the forth attachment is what I think it is.

If I'm wrong please anyone that knows how to wire to this configuration please send me a diagram.

Thank you
George Copley
[email protected]

Hi zorsoc_cosdog

New configuration Now going with 4 pin ON/OFF Rocker Switches, Earth is now in the diagram
I'm concerned about the SSR with the load end? in their diagram the pins configuration are opposite to
mine, this is what I'm confused about.

I will be adding a 240V 22mm Flash Light Red LED Active Buzzer Beep Indicator and
240V Indicator Switchboard Light

pid.jpg


index.jpg
 
I'd be wary of using those rockers with a 10A load going through. Any slightly dodgy connection and those rockers will get hot.

I'd also recommend either getting a much more durable switch (ie - a 15 / 20A rated rotary) or using the rockers to activate a mechanical relay instead of directly inline (ie - electric brewery method, give them a lookup www.electricbrewery.com).

Good luck, good brewing, and as always... find a friend that packs TPS in the back of his ute.
 
step off george.jpg

No offence but I think you need to take a step back and get some advice George. I've had a quick look at your drawing and got a bit confused. You seem to be trying to start a fire or kill someone. Not sure if this is your intention. Switches don't switch active to neutral, switching neutrals is not recommended, controlling a heavy load through an inline switch is bad practice, an SSR does not have an active and neutral connection, lack of earthing kills.

I haven't tasted a glass of homebrew yet that's worth dying for.

Edit: Soldering 230V terminals? How will these be protected?
 
Hi Camo6,

That is why I'm on the forum asking questions and hoping to get the right help here.

The only good video I could find on youtube is this one. But he does not have any switches and earth plus he is not use brown for live and blue for neutral.
Also the diagram he showed he does keep to it. this is why I'm confused.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZDkrR0Vhrc


It will be EARTH heaps and yes the earth will be fastened permanently

e01dd73f-a97d-4f6f-b3c6-65adbcdf94e1 (1).jpg
 
You're better off asking a sparkie offline how to do it. Unproven advice off the internet will probably void your life insurance. Anyone with knowledge and a duty of care can be held culpable for even correct advice.
I applaud your endeavour to DIY (I did the same) but seriously encourage you to either; gain a better understanding of what you're doing or; seek the help of someone licensed to do the job.
 
Camo6 said:
attachicon.gif
step off george.jpg

No offence but I think you need to take a step back and get some advice George. I've had a quick look at your drawing and got a bit confused. You seem to be trying to start a fire or kill someone. Not sure if this is your intention. Switches don't switch active to neutral, switching neutrals is not recommended, controlling a heavy load through an inline switch is bad practice, an SSR does not have an active and neutral connection, lack of earthing kills.

I haven't tasted a glass of homebrew yet that's worth dying for.

Camo6 has valid points....but I was hoping to promote your enthusiasm a bit more George as the details emerged and as you learnt a bit about this stuff.

Anything you understand ends up easy. I'm sure the love for brewing is what you're riding on. But a boot to the head from 240V is...shall I say...memorable - and worst case: you'll never remember anything ever again.


Responding to your question directly, your sketch appears to have indicated the load switching terminals of your SSD correctly. So keep up using your judgement.

Do you have any electrical test equipment? A multi meter? Go ahead and throw a 9V battery across Pin3 and Pin4 (minding polarity) and evaluate the SSD operation. That LED will turn on when energised.

Check your house's RCD and test that sucker. Press the button and make sure all the lights go out. Then I'd get an appliance you don't much care for (old lamp) and cut the sheath, cut the active (brown) and thow those two ends onto Pin1 and Pin2. Leave the neutral un-cut. This would be the moment where you have adrenaline in your blood and should be shit scared/respectful of electricity. In a healthy way of course.

Next, nearly all electrical engineering considers protection first. What fault currents will occur in what circumstances; Where does the fault current go? (Answer 1 is always: not through a human)
How do I isolate parts of equipment. Where am I going to place my circuit breakers? Will the protection coordinate with my house mains ?

Where is the energy going? Good point by Camo6... switches aren't ideal for moving tons of electrical pixies. Look into a device called a contactor.

George, Good onya for getting in there and asking. I'll help you where/when I can. I'm sure you're seeing how many more sketches you will need to draft up to sort out this bad boy!.

And you will. But don't go this alone....if you have a sparky mate that happens to love your brewing wares.....hook him up for advice!


Jason

EDIT: As another idea (because I'm not sure of your experience / confidence with electricity) You could get yourself a 24 VAC power adapter which you could use as your dummy 240VAC power supply.

http://www.radioparts.com.au/product/33770200/ac2410?gclid=CM6eyf3Ex8wCFYZjvAodsx0Ljg#.Vy2mXhV97uQ

Just pretend that the power out of the tiny powerpac is main power until you're producing quality designs.

EDIT2: I watched that video link. It looks american with the 120VAC and the power outlet type. In the US, home wiring at 110/120VAC is legal I believe. There is less risk of death. That fluffy music doesn't fit in with the Australian setting.
 
Also, for any DIY electrical people our there: Check out this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDm5BfRrAsg

This bloke is ******* brilliant. I'm going to buy one of these meters just to see what happens! An amazing first FLUKE for ANYONE!

And, this reminds me of this SKOOKUM AS FRIG Australian who runs the EEVBlog

Tutorials on multimeter input protection.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUhnGp5vh60
 
I'm sorry but I'm failing to understand how the load is correctly labelled in George's diagram. According to his labelling he is switching a neutral and an active at the SSR. That's called a short circuit.
Does L stand for live? Both active and neutral conductors are considered live. Maybe he's just copying a US wiring diagram but without a circuit diagram I wouldn't be assuming anything.
And testing an RCD with a shorted lamp? If it's an RCBO how do you define between overcurrent and earth leakage detection? Apart from the fact whether it kills you or not. FWIW, 110V AC will still electrocute you even if just "a little bit."
I suspect you're trolling cosdog because anyone offering advice otherwise is either unlicensed or unphased as to the OP's safety (pun semi-intended).
 
Camo6 said:
I'm sorry but I'm failing to understand how the load is correctly labelled in George's diagram. According to his labelling he is switching a neutral and an active at the SSR. That's called a short circuit.
Does L stand for live? Both active and neutral conductors are considered live. Maybe he's just copying a US wiring diagram but without a circuit diagram I wouldn't be assuming anything.
And testing an RCD with a shorted lamp? If it's an RCBO how do you define between overcurrent and earth leakage detection? Apart from the fact whether it kills you or not. FWIW, 110V AC will still electrocute you even if just "a little bit."
I suspect you're trolling cosdog because anyone offering advice otherwise is either unlicensed or unphased as to the OP's safety (pun semi-intended).
He didn't ask about the load, he asked about the connection on the SSD - twice. Yep, that diagram is bunk. George gets that and has gone and bought some toys to play with before he returns to 240 VAC.

Your RCD response: It doesn't fit with what I'd said.

First time my name and trolling has been combined....and it doesn't feel .... natural.

Source:
BEng (Elec) 2006, High School Maths/Physics Teacher.

I know the approach you're taking Camo6 and it is indeed the safest. I see that you have knowledge in this space, what would you suggest to George to help him skill up for this exercise?

Building his circuits with 24VAC and 9V batteries will provide him valuable learning experiments. Even my students play with this level of energy, as you would have when you started learning electricity.
 
Thanks Camo6,
Just making sure the diagram is correct.

At the movement I'm just trying to put things together, and asking question at same time

The main's will be going through a 15A RCD box then onto the control panel.
From the control panel all earth wires inside box will be corrected to larger earth cable that go's to the ground

5db112f0-f11c-4087-bb23-b84f256c4612.jpg


HomeEarthRodAustralia1.jpg
 
georgecopley said:
Thanks Camo6,
Just making sure the diagram is correct.
George,

No-one has said your diagram is correct.
 
georgecopley said:
Hi zorsoc_cosdog

New configuration Now going with 4 pin ON/OFF Rocker Switches, Earth is now in the diagram
I'm concerned about the SSR with the load end? in their diagram the pins configuration are opposite to
mine, this is what I'm confused about.

I will be adding a 240V 22mm Flash Light Red LED Active Buzzer Beep Indicator and
240V Indicator Switchboard Light
umm few points
1) earth that SSR
2) earth that SSR!
3) join all your neutrals and switch your actives
4) the ssr should be switching on/off an active line. it seems to have a neutral on one side and an active on the other (unless im squinting wrong)
5)I think i would switch the active pre SSR for the heater instead of after. If there's an o'sh*t moment I would want either switch to be definitely isolating the 'weak' link in the circuit and SSRs can have a tendency to have issues (depending on the quality)

note: these are comments from some random guy on the internet and should not be taken as electrical advice
 
zorsoc_cosdog said:
He didn't ask about the load, he asked about the connection on the SSD - twice. Yep, that diagram is bunk. George gets that and has gone and bought some toys to play with before he returns to 240 VAC.

Your RCD response: It doesn't fit with what I'd said.

First time my name and trolling has been combined....and it doesn't feel .... natural.

Source:
BEng (Elec) 2006, High School Maths/Physics Teacher.

I know the approach you're taking Camo6 and it is indeed the safest. I see that you have knowledge in this space, what would you suggest to George to help him skill up for this exercise?

Building his circuits with 24VAC and 9V batteries will provide him valuable learning experiments. Even my students play with this level of energy, as you would have when you started learning electricity.
He asked about the load connection on the SSR, correct? His diagram indicates a neutral to one side of the SSR and an active to the other. Maybe it's incorrectly labelled but there's a reason circuit diagrams are drawn up to begin with. The load side of an AC SSR should only switch an active conductor. Furthermore, a semi conductor type relay should not be used for true isolation.
In regards to your RCD statement, you cannot connect a live and neutral conductor and expect that to indicate true earth leakage interruption. CB's and RCD's work on two separate principles. An RCD tester can be picked up pretty cheap.

Apologies for calling you a troll, I realise that is not your intention but there's a reason why alternating current is a licensed trade. Don't want to sound righteous or hypocritical but it is now being drilled into me how liable I am for giving advice on electrical even if it's sound. If Joe Blow cops a fatal shock from me telling him the correct way to wire a GPO, I can go to jail. However, Sandra, an electrical expert for one year at Bunnings, need not fear repercussions as she has no duty of care in the field.

Sorry for being such a negative prick but my this is now my living and feel the need to speak up when I see fit.
 
zorsoc_cosdog said:
George,

No-one has said your diagram is correct.
no, but someone should tell him its incorrect..

George, your diagram is incorrect!
 
SBOB said:
4) the ssr should be switching on/off an active line. it seems to have a neutral on one side and an active on the other (unless im squinting wrong)
I'm glad someone else picked that up. I was starting to think the dozen schooners I've had were affecting my thinking.
 

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