A Crazy Idea For Trub/hop Separation In The Kettle

[shandy]

This has become my new mission as I brew a lot of lagers and clean clear wort into the fermenter is imperative to me, not to mention yeast reuse. Does anyone have any more info on the beer belly device? It's more expensive than an FB but with all that wasted wort anything that really works is going to pay for itself in no time.

 

[Goofinder]

Does anyone have any more info on the beer belly device? It's more expensive than an FB but with all that wasted wort anything that really works is going to pay for itself in no time.

The beerbelly hopscreen works great. I recently did a batch with all pellets and it even managed to stop the vast majority from getting into the cube. Also, now I've got a pickup tube on my urn I get a couple extra litres out which always helps :chug: There's basically just hop sludge left in the bottom now, with bugger all extra liquid.

Edit: Oh, and the 2mm spacing doesn't really make all that much difference because you have a pickup tube that sits at the bottom of the hopscreen. So you've got the outside of the hopscreen filtering out most of the crap, then even less making it into the pickup tube and into your cube/chiller.

 

[rich_lamb]

Hey Thirsty - I'm going to give your "sand filter" a crack. I have this river sand that I normally use for the bottom of the aviary - it's a very course grade yet the pebbles are all well rounded, looks like quartz mostly. I buy it in 20kg bags from nurseries.
Anyway, not wanting to sacrifice a brew, I will test it first. And I need to recalibrate the kettle and such. My plan was to wash it first and boil it to get rid of any soluble minerals, fine particulate and other nasties.

Probably wash it again before I give it to the cocky.

Let you know how it goes.

 

[shandy]

The beerbelly hopscreen works great. I recently did a batch with all pellets and it even managed to stop the vast majority from getting into the cube. Also, now I've got a pickup tube on my urn I get a couple extra litres out which always helps :chug: There's basically just hop sludge left in the bottom now, with bugger all extra liquid.

So with all pellets there was some transfer of pellet and break material to your fermenter?

Edit: Oh, and the 2mm spacing doesn't really make all that much difference because you have a pickup tube that sits at the bottom of the hopscreen. So you've got the outside of the hopscreen filtering out most of the crap, then even less making it into the pickup tube and into your cube/chiller.

Do you mean there's another filter inside the device?

 

[raven19]

Hey Thirsty - I'm going to give your "sand filter" a crack. I have this river sand that I normally use for the bottom of the aviary - it's a very course grade yet the pebbles are all well rounded, looks like quartz mostly. I buy it in 20kg bags from nurseries.
Anyway, not wanting to sacrifice a brew, I will test it first. And I need to recalibrate the kettle and such. My plan was to wash it first and boil it to get rid of any soluble minerals, fine particulate and other nasties.

Probably wash it again before I give it to the cocky.

Let you know how it goes.

B&T - I would presume a good boil and clean before use would be all that is needed. As its going to get boiled with the wort in the kettle yes?

The sand should not break down and is still inert at temperatures of approx 100 degrees (during boil) - if i recall from Geology correctly.

Keen to hear how it goes.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

B&T, that'd be cool - I'll get around to trying this myself one day... but its a long way down the experiment list so it would have been a while. Love to hear what happens if you give it a go.

TB

 

[Goofinder]

So with all pellets there was some transfer of pellet and break material to your fermenter?

Very little makes it into the fermenter.

Do you mean there's another filter inside the device?

No, just that any material that wants to get into the fermenter needs to get through the filter bed around the hopscreen, and make it into the pickup tube.

 

[Bribie G]

I've been reading a 150 year old book on brewing and they nearly always used hop backs not only for the late hopping but as a filter so I'm thinking of using a cheapy 'hoppinator' that I'm designing, but I'll need a stainless steel funnel and can't seem to track one down either locally or on the web.

However if I can get one I'll give it a whirl next brew and see how the wort turns out, assuming my grand design doesn't clog up after the first couple of litres

 

[drsmurto]

I'm pretty interested in this piece of kit if you reckon it works with only pellets. What sort of quantity of pellets were in your brew when you went all pellet? And at 2mm does it really stop the break material too? Do the hops build up around it and filter the break or is it managing to filter it on it's own. I'd gladly part with the money to get nice clear runoff but I want to be sure it's the right thing for me first.

So many questions :huh:

Have done up to 250g of only pellets in the one batch. Clear as a bell going into the chiller, of course it comes out cloudy due to the cold break but thats a different story.

If i didnt tip then i would lose maybe 2-3L of wort. By tipping is get that down to 1-1.5L and the minute the runoff get cloudy i close the tap.

As for trub getting into the fermenter affecting your ability to re-use the yeast - wash it. I ferment on the cold break and still collect, wash and re-use my yeast multiple times.

 

[raven19]

I've been reading a 150 year old book on brewing and they nearly always used hop backs not only for the late hopping but as a filter so I'm thinking of using a cheapy 'hoppinator' that I'm designing, but I'll need a stainless steel funnel and can't seem to track one down either locally or on the web.

However if I can get one I'll give it a whirl next brew and see how the wort turns out, assuming my grand design doesn't clog up after the first couple of litres

View attachment 23337

Can you source food grade HDPE or similar that is heat resistant as an alternative?

I like the simplicity of it!!!

 

[drsmurto]

A pyrex glass funnel would work just as well as stainless.....

 

[OLDS2006]

There was a ss funnel on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FUNNEL-STAINLESS-ST...A1%7C240%3A1318

 

[shandy]

Have done up to 250g of only pellets in the one batch. Clear as a bell going into the chiller, of course it comes out cloudy due to the cold break but thats a different story.

If i didnt tip then i would lose maybe 2-3L of wort. By tipping is get that down to 1-1.5L and the minute the runoff get cloudy i close the tap.

As for trub getting into the fermenter affecting your ability to re-use the yeast - wash it. I ferment on the cold break and still collect, wash and re-use my yeast multiple times.

Ah, so your filtering the hops only with the beerbelly device and running your wort through a plate chiller straight into your fermenter. I have a whirlpool immersion setup so I'm recirculating through the outlet and back into the kettle throughout the cooling. Once it's chilled, I reconfigure and pump out to the fermenter. It's at that point that I want nice clear wort. Perhaps once it running out the hops around the filter device would filter the break material

 

[Bribie G]

A pyrex glass funnel would work just as well as stainless.....

There was a ss funnel on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FUNNEL-STAINLESS-ST...A1%7C240%3A1318

I originally thought SS because I was under the mistaken impression that there would be heaps of them out there, but apparently not. However I've found that there are plenty of not only Pyrex but also plastic funnels available from lab suppliers that can be autoclaved and withstand up to 120 degrees so I'll ring around. Probably more practical then SS at the end of the day.

 

[drsmurto]

Ah, so your filtering the hops only with the beerbelly device and running your wort through a plate chiller straight into your fermenter. I have a whirlpool immersion setup so I'm recirculating through the outlet and back into the kettle throughout the cooling. Once it's chilled, I reconfigure and pump out to the fermenter. It's at that point that I want nice clear wort. Perhaps once it running out the hops around the filter device would filter the break material

Hops and the trub from the hot break.

Plate chiller just looked like an easier option to me. Less hassle. Didnt have to build anything which suits my phobia of tools (both literal and metaphorical).

Whirlpool. Hook up plate chiller. Run thru plate chiller. Pitch yeast.

If i want to separate the cold break from my ferment i can wait 15-20 mins after running it thru the plate chiller and then run it into another fermenter.......

Not sure that people worry that much about fermenting on the cold break, i could be wrong tho....

As i said, i can easily separate the trub from the yeast when collecting the yeast cake after primary fermentation.

 

[quantocks]

BribieG,

Fallsdell stock a range of stainless steel funnels, and can also custom manufacture funnels to suit any requirement. Please use the enquiry form below to request more information

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maybe give these dudes a call

here

 

[Bribie G]

Cheers Quantocks I've emailed them via their contact page.

 

[Frank]

Hey Thirsty - I'm going to give your "sand filter" a crack. I have this river sand that I normally use for the bottom of the aviary - it's a very course grade yet the pebbles are all well rounded, looks like quartz mostly. I buy it in 20kg bags from nurseries.
Anyway, not wanting to sacrifice a brew, I will test it first. And I need to recalibrate the kettle and such. My plan was to wash it first and boil it to get rid of any soluble minerals, fine particulate and other nasties.
Probably wash it again before I give it to the cocky.
Let you know how it goes.

A better filter bed would be with a smaller, more angular media, once the media starts to round off I ditch it. I use crushed basalt in large irrigation media filter, particle size 1.2-1.8mm. Can not comment on the taint issues though to put through beer production. This type of material can be bought commercially, that have been washed and screened. I have about a tonne that I will be replacing soon, so might save a bit if anyone wants to experiment.
I think cleaning and storing the sand may become a PitA though.
Here's a PDF on sand filters I am talking about.
View attachment 4000_Series_Media_Filter_1_.pdf

 

[kram]

Hey Bribie, will that be hot wort leaving the kettle through the funnel? If it is, there may be a risk of hot side aeration to the wort.

 

[Bribie G]

Hey Bribie, will that be hot wort leaving the kettle through the funnel? If it is, there may be a risk of hot side aeration to the wort.

The piccie is for general reference only, in reality the spigot of the urn would be just about touching the spent hop bed and flowing gently on to it rather than splashing and bubbling, and I've included a racking cane / hose rather than letting it splash into the cube, so hopefully there won't be too much oxygen take up. Also with darker ales being drunk young I understand that HSA isn't as much of an issue as with, for example, light beers for lagering and long storage.