A Crazy Idea For Trub/hop Separation In The Kettle

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The website says this has 2mm perforations. Surely that's too big to stop the trub if youre only using hop pellets...

Andy

Been using a combo of plugs and pellets of late but yesterday did a brew with only pellets. Whirlpooled liked a mad man after flameout and let the styrian goldings steep for 20 mins. Lovely clear run off. Tipped a bit less than usual and left maybe 1L of wort behind, maybe 1.5L.
 
Unless u got too much time on yours hands or nothing else to build in your brewery I would not be putting too much energy into this. Whats the cost to budget for and extra litre of wort?

Steve
 
Except that its my brewery and I find it important.

Budget has nothing whatsoever to do with it, I get both my base malt and the majority of my hops for free; and I brew 21 litre batches in a 50L pot ... so I can budget for 29L of extra wort if I want to, I just don't want to.

I find it inelegant to waste so much recoverable wort and I am most pleased that people have chosen to help me explore some different ways of recovering it
 
I got a tip from a brewer recently that I havent tried yet but it might be worth trying.

Put the left overs in a sanitised 5 litre demijohn (or similar) and leave it over night to settle. The next day rack it into your fermenter.

Another thing you could do is bottle it and boil the bottles as you would when making tomato sauce. You could then use it to make a starter at some later date.
 
Except that its my brewery and I find it important.

Budget has nothing whatsoever to do with it, I get both my base malt and the majority of my hops for free; and I brew 21 litre batches in a 50L pot ... so I can budget for 29L of extra wort if I want to, I just don't want to.

I find it inelegant to waste so much recoverable wort and I am most pleased that people have chosen to help me explore some different ways of recovering it


I agree. I look at what's left in the bottom of the kettle in terms of 'glasses' and 'how many'. I do brew to get beer after all, and it seems pointless to start throwing it away so early in a brew.

And yes, with direct fired mashtuns, a lack of insulation is more appropriate. I'm about to put removeable insulation on someone's tun for them because it's going to be gas fired.

I do find that on my own brewery, because the summers here are so 'lovely and warm' the beauty of insulation only really shines through in winter, when I start having issues with heat loss from every exposed surface without it. I rug up like a complete wimp during winter :D so I do the same for my tun :lol:
 
My wife found this when cleaning out her Great Aunts kitchen cupboards. Obviously some kind of kitchen implement.......soon as I saw it I thought...thats a filter. How could I fit this to my keg. Any ideas? Its made of aluminium.
Cheers
Steve
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That there is the grounds bowl for a coffee percolator. I owned one of those brilliant little coffee kettles for ages until a flatmate moved out with it........they make the best coffee.....

I reckon fit it into the very centre at the bottom, flush against the bottom of the kettle with a pickup tube coming up from the centre hole to your outlet.
 
Now that sounds like a plan! cheers Dom
Steve
 
My wife found this when cleaning out her Great Aunts kitchen cupboards. Obviously some kind of kitchen implement.......soon as I saw it I thought...thats a filter. How could I fit this to my keg. Any ideas? Its made of aluminium.
Cheers
Steve
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Perhaps with the ball valve on a bit of all thread + fibre washer + locking nut on the outside of kettle and 3mm insertion rubber (or similar) on the inside, then the filter & then the fibre washer + locknut inside of that to tighten the whole thing up. Sounds ok to me?
Anyway, let us all know how it goes. ATM I am just using the first version hop sock from CraftBrewer but an thinking of draining the whole lot out of the kettle through a termimesh filter sitting inside a ss conical sieve.

TP :beer:
 
Perhaps with the ball valve on a bit of all thread + fibre washer + locking nut on the outside of kettle and 3mm insertion rubber (or similar) on the inside, then the filter & then the fibre washer + locknut inside of that to tighten the whole thing up. Sounds ok to me?
Anyway, let us all know how it goes. ATM I am just using the first version hop sock from CraftBrewer but an thinking of draining the whole lot out of the kettle through a termimesh filter sitting inside a ss conical sieve.

TP :beer:

that sounds even easier - thanks TP
Steve
 
Massive surface area.


No angle whatsoever in this question, other than , yes i throw good wort out, and i see two uses of this yankee hop stoppa, i.e mashtun and boiler.
Does the hop/trub/break surface area have to be smaller than "massive surface area"? i dont see the difference apart from one will get blocked before the other due too "surface area" if i am doing a big ipa 80+ ibu`s? because if it was bigger i.e more hop n shite than screened area then it would block? why would we all not be using this simple looking gadget other than expensive p/up tubes, hop stoppas, false bottoms etc.
Each to their own of course, but me 2 am interested in new ideas, albeit they are left field, out of the square or from overseas.
Haysie
 
I'm throwin my full weight (haha) behind Thirsty on this one - I hate the idea of wasting litres of well crafted beer in the kettle.
So a few thoughts from me on what I've tried and what I've yet to try...

1) The sand idea sounds good, but how much wort does the sand soak up? Trick would be to choose just coarse enough sand, like those very small river pebbles. You may end up losing the same wort without ever seeing it.

2) Any way you look at it, filtering seems to be the most common approach. And whatever filter you use the main problem is clogging. Hop stoppers work better than any small perforated jigger because they're bigger, and therefore clog less. Sand is about as big as you'd get. Hop flowers seem to be a nice natural solution, with the false bottom to give max filter area.

3) One way I've considered to reduce clogging is a blend of filtering and whirlpooling. You whirlpool, and carefully rack off the wort through a filter, which doesn't have to do much filtering until you reach the trub cone and therefore stays unclogged as long as possible?

4) I was trying to make something like a hopstopper out of locally sourced materials before I gave up as none of the suppliers would give me the time of day. There's a SS mesh called "termi mesh" used to stop termites which looks pretty good. Most wire suppliers have a range of fine meshes also. If anyone has a good source ?..

5) I do like that very simple suggestion of cooling the last litres in plastic bottles to settle the trub. Though it is an extra step.

If given the choice between losing the beer or keeping the trub I'd probably lose the beer though. Trub carryover into the fermentor can cause problems when you're after a really clean flavour (eg. lagers), and you're gonna lose the beer anyway when you rack from the fermenter as nobody's going to filter that!
 
Well, a slight update on crazy trub separation ideas...

I didn't do the sand thing, although one of these days I am going to try it just for giggles. But I have done some post kettle filtration with a fair degree of success. I have a ruined 1micron pleated filter that previously helped me turn cloudy beer bright.. its currently doing no better than making them "less" hazy, so rather than throw it out, it has been demoted to wort filter.

I put it in the housing I use for my water filtration, between the kettle and the plate chiller. The theory being that these puppies also have massive surface area, probably more than you could get with an inside kettle application of any description, and even when obviously not working to capacity, a 1 micron filter is going to get rid of pretty much every last bit of hot break or hops... and as a bonus I can use it as a hop back should I so desire.

I wanted to make sure that it would work, the housing wouldn't melt mid cool and that I wouldn't get any flavour leeching from the plastic, so I did a test brew with 30L of boiling water, 250g of hop pellets and about 150g of carrageenan (to make it a little gummy) no actual wort, but plenty of other stuff to clog it up. And I took pictures... here they are.

A temporary pick-up tube drained the kettle almost to the bottom. No waiting for it to settle,no whirlpool was done, flame out, tap open. Whats left in there just fell to the bottom and stuck of its own accord while the kettle was draining.

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Almost the whole thing drained out under gravity, it slowed down at about the 5-6L left mark and I hooked it up to the pump to go the rest of the way, just to see if that would work.. it did. This would be why it slowed down at the end!!! Thats a lot'o'hops

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and all cleaned up. A soak in nappisan will restore it to white, not that I care.

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A late in the cool sample (just before pump was connected) was taken and cooled for tasting. It was so bitter it was a little hard to tell, but I couldn't detect any plastic flavours at all and the housing took the heat without batting an eyelid.

I tried it out on an actual brew last weekend.. a 21L batch of Irish Red ale to 24IBUs. I fitted a proper all the way to the bottom pick-up and the filter handled the lesser amount of kettle goo with ridiculous ease on gravity alone; and with a little coaxing I lost less than 500ml of wort. Next time I will put a litre or so of cut/chase water into the kettle at end of cool to push the wort completely through the filter and the chiller, and the wort loss will be no more than the actual absorption of the hops.

Recoverable wort all recovered, plate filter safe from clogging and absolutely zero hot break into fermentor. An APA in the next week or two will test its abilities as hopback, but so far at least.. it seems all good.

Thirsty
 
Been using a combo of plugs and pellets of late but yesterday did a brew with only pellets. Whirlpooled liked a mad man after flameout and let the styrian goldings steep for 20 mins. Lovely clear run off. Tipped a bit less than usual and left maybe 1L of wort behind, maybe 1.5L.

I'm pretty interested in this piece of kit if you reckon it works with only pellets. What sort of quantity of pellets were in your brew when you went all pellet? And at 2mm does it really stop the break material too? Do the hops build up around it and filter the break or is it managing to filter it on it's own. I'd gladly part with the money to get nice clear runoff but I want to be sure it's the right thing for me first.

So many questions :huh:
 
I'm pretty interested in this piece of kit if you reckon it works with only pellets. What sort of quantity of pellets were in your brew when you went all pellet? And at 2mm does it really stop the break material too? Do the hops build up around it and filter the break or is it managing to filter it on it's own. I'd gladly part with the money to get nice clear runoff but I want to be sure it's the right thing for me first.

So many questions :huh:

well, dont bother with the filter housing thing... it worked a bit, but not really well. It might work with perhaps a less fine filter, but this one clogged up terribly and wort couldn't be forced through even with a pump after a couple of brews.. dammit.

I am back to whirlpooling (not that it does much...) and leaving behind 2-2.5L of wort. But I'm not happy about it. Less fussy these days about "chunks" because I am a No-chill convert and the plate chiller is a paper weight atm.
 
well, dont bother with the filter housing thing... it worked a bit, but not really well. It might work with perhaps a less fine filter, but this one clogged up terribly and wort couldn't be forced through even with a pump after a couple of brews.. dammit.

I am back to whirlpooling (not that it does much...) and leaving behind 2-2.5L of wort. But I'm not happy about it. Less fussy these days about "chunks" because I am a No-chill convert and the plate chiller is a paper weight atm.

Well I cannot help much with the filter but I have an idea to put the chiller to use.

Brew double batches in that big converted keg. Run off the first batch through the chiller and ferment. Then run the last off into a cube for no chill. Use some type of strainer to remove the chunks from the last runnings and let the rest settle in the cube.
 
nah.. I almost never do double batches. Single batches are too much for me really, I only do enough to fill a keg because I have kegs to fill, otherwise I would probably brew smaller batches.
 

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