5.2 Ph Stabilizer In Mash

[dalpets]

Hi everyone,

Could you please advise;

If the quantity of stabilizer added to the mash should be based on the mash water volume alone or the mash water + grain volume.

It has been said elsewhere that the stabilizer should also be added to sparge water but also that it has no effect on water by itself. I assume that this means that when the sparge with stabilizer is added to the mash the stabilizer is immediately rendered effective.

Thank you for your comments which are appreciated.

 

[NickB]

Only started using it in a few test batches recently, but if I remember correctly (because I'm too lazy to walk downstairs), the container recommends 1 tablespoon/23L final volume. I suppose you could split this 50/50 with the mash and sparge water, but I just chuck it into the mash.... I've only been using 1/2 teaspoon too. No results yet as the yeast are still at work!

Cheers

 

[argon]

First time I used it and every batch since I've had a jump of over 5% in efficiency based on what I used to get. I always just add it to the hlt with any other salt additions. It all ends up in the may anyway so should 't make a difference.

 

[dalpets]

Actually it says 1 TBL for 5 gallons which equates to 12 grams per 18.93 litres.

I don't know why I think this but I would say the dosage should be the same for both the sparge & the mash. Maybe someone with more knowledge & experience than me could chime in on this question.

Cheers

 

[bum]

I'm not sure it would be necessary for the sparge - this stuff is supposed to help conversion in the mash, isn't it? It has already done the job by sparge o'clock, hasn't it?

This isn't the voice of experience - I just bought some last weekend and am yet to give it a run. Will be watching this thread intently.

 

[alkos]

It says to use 1TBL per 5gal of finished beer.

To me it meansone should split this amount between mash and sparge.

 

[Ross]

Ph5.2 should be added to the mash only, not the sparge water.

Cheers Ross

 

[speedie]

Firstly what do you mean by stabilizer

If it is for lowering the Ph of your brew then it should be added after you have doughed in then you can adjust to your target



The malt will have a natural lowering effect on Ph

Bums comment on sparge water Ph is contentious

Think of it this way if you all ready have a stable 5.5 Ph in your mash then too run off and dilute with a higher Ph solution would suggest that it could raise the final Ph overall

Food for thought

speedie

 

[Ross]

Speedie,

PH 5.2 is a buffering agent - Up or down, it will adjust & hold your mash at the optimum ph

Cheers Ross

 

[jonocarroll]

Firstly what do you mean by stabilizer

If it is for lowering the Ph of your brew then it should be added after you have doughed in then you can adjust to your target



The malt will have a natural lowering effect on Ph

Bums comment on sparge water Ph is contentious

Think of it this way if you all ready have a stable 5.5 Ph in your mash then too run off and dilute with a higher Ph solution would suggest that it could raise the final Ph overall

Food for thought

The word 'stabiliser' means nothing to you, speedie, does it? It doesn't say acidic or alkaline, it's a stabiliser. In other words, a buffer to get the pH to 5.2 - whether that means raising or lower the pH.

EveRyThing Abot Your Posts AnnOys Me

Why start a post with a question indicating that you don't know what this product is, or is for, take a stab in the dark, follow only your own reasoning, then go on to call others wrong if they disagree with you. Argh!

 

[Bretto77]

Ph5.2 should be added to the mash only, not the sparge water.

Cheers Ross

Hi Ross,
Wondering if you have any info on Brisbane water specs or any ideas what our rainwater is likely to be so we can have a better idea exactly how much 5.2 we need to add?

Cheers
Brett

 

[dalpets]

It says to use 1TBL per 5gal of finished beer.

To me it means one should split this amount between mash and sparge.

Actually the label says;

"use at the rate of approx TBL/5gal of water used in your brew. Calculate the amount of water based on the total volume in the kettle (ex 5gal. Leaving kettle use 1TBL) Place into the mash tun while you are mashing in. If desired dissolve in a small amount of water before adding to the mash."

You appear to be saying add a quantity to the mash based on the final volume in the boil kettle, which should be approx the calculated fermentation volume.

Am I correct in this understanding of your position, because it appears others base the stabilizer quantity solely on the mash volume.

I'm afraid the poor labelling of the stabilizer lends itself to the confusion which appears to be abroad.

Cheers

 

[Ross]

Hi Ross,
Wondering if you have any info on Brisbane water specs or any ideas what our rainwater is likely to be so we can have a better idea exactly how much 5.2 we need to add?

Cheers
Brett

Trial & error... Though feedback from customers on Brisbane water indicates a heaped teaspoon is all that's required.
Get yourself some cheap ph strips, & you'll soon have it worked out.

cheers Ross

 

[speedie]

Ross what are we talking about chemically

I dont use acidified malt or good old vitamin c to lower Ph only phosphoric acid

If the stabilizer we are discussing can adjust the Ph of our mash either up or down what is it

Say for instance there is a large amount of black malt in the grain bill which has a large lowering potential

How does the stabilizer bring an increase to our mash?

Cheers speedie

 

[Ross]

Speedie, I'm not a chemist & don't profess to understand the way that buffering agents work - Just that they do.

From the manufacturers website
5.2 is a proprietary blend of food-grade phosphate buffers (similar to brewers salts) that
will lock in your mash and kettle water at a pH of 5.2 regardless of the starting pH of your
water. 52 is safe for your mash and WILL NOT add any flavors to your beer. 52 will
provide consistency of pH in any water conditions, but the most significant gains will be
obtained if you are brewing in hard water.
Repeatability throughout the brewing process is the key to producing consistent high
quality beer. Of all the ingredients in your beer, water is the most misunderstood
component. Water is universal solvent for metals, minerals, cations and anions. The
quality, hardness and subsequent pH of your water will affect enzymatic activity,
solubility of salts, proteins and sugars as well as hop usage and perceived hop
bitterness. In addition, water quality also contributes to scaling and mineral deposited
on your equipment. Now you have the ability to control the pH of your brewing water
under any conditions.

 

[speedie]

Ross I dont doubt that what the manufacture prints on there product has some validity

What I will ask you though is have you used this product to both raise or lower the Ph of test brews that you have done

This would be a great indictor of its power

It is either acid or alkaline

Cheers speedie

 

[Bribie G]

Speedie read and learn

 

[dalpets]

Ph5.2 should be added to the mash only, not the sparge water.

Cheers Ross

Hi Ross,

Getting back to my post that started this thread-what volume would you base the addition to the mash on

mash water?
mash water + grain?
estimated final volume of the brew in the boil kettle?

Thanks

 

[bignath]

I'm not sure it would be necessary for the sparge - this stuff is supposed to help conversion in the mash, isn't it? It has already done the job by sparge o'clock, hasn't it?

Absolutely.

Speedie, not too sure what's so "contentious" about bum's posting..

As many have pointed out, it's a buffering agent which will when used correctly, KEEP your mash pH at the optimum point for conversion.

Take the advice and info from a lot of heavily experienced brewers that are replying to you on this one, and maybe, just maybe this thread won't turn into a shit storm....

EDIT: Sorry for going off topic dalpets. Now back to the OP.

 

[kieran]

A buffer can acts as both a proton acceptor and proton donator, with different buffering agents at different mix ratios targetting particular pH ranges. Their effectiveness is usually targetted around a certain +/- pH range.. so they can both raise, or lower the pH within a certain range. To raise the pH, it will accept a lot of available protons from acids.. to lower it, it will donate protons.. the potential for this to happen is dependent on the concentration of the buffering agents in solution. So by their nature, they can raise a pH, or lower it..

The useful thing about using a buffer rather than just directly modifying the pH by using an acid or base, is that as the mash continues and water penetrates the grain bed further, there will be appreciable drift in the pH sans buffer -- even if it has first been "set" to 5.2 by an acid. There won't be a massive change, but perhaps that small change might make the difference to somebody.

This is a handly little tool to calculate your own phosphate buffer target pH's effective at a particular concentration.

http://home.fuse.net/clymer/buffers/phos2.html

I use phosphate, tris, mops and other buffers at work and they are bloody handy little solutions.