400 Liters Lost To Infection

[Tony]

Will try that Screwy, thanks mate.

You get in a system of sanitation that works and just stick with it

I will try that!

Less water, more bleach in the firmenter

cheers

 

[sama]

I Will take the advice on switching to a new sanatiser........... where can i get this Starsan stuff?

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=933

 

[sama]

For what its worth,i think if everything is cleaned with sodium percarbonate based cleaner(napisan,oxybright etc) then you shouldnt need to use bleach if youve got some starsan..tho the bleach cant hurt i suppose.

 

[The King of Spain]

Sometime I envy the rigs I see on this forum, but reading this post makes me want to keep it that way. No taps, valves etc etc.

 

[Tony]

Its all good if you know what things to clean out........... I didnt.

Thats why im posting all this, so others can learn from my nightmare.

I would have rater kept it all to myself, its embaresing, but i just thought of all the others out there that could hit a similar problem. If it helps save someone sanity.......... well, i will post my pictures of complacency.

You can plumb a rig a lot more simpler )) than i did but when i built mine, there wernt many others getting about. I basicly did it from my head.

There are better ways, but i do like my hard plumbed rig. ITs reliable, i know it like the back of my hand and i dont thing the pipe pre kettle are the problem. Thats why we boil it isnt it?

Everything gets flushed with hot water post mash, and i have pulled it apart to inspect it......... clean as a whistle.

cheers

 

[andreic]

I was trained to be a fault finder in my trade and im using my training of sorts with this.

Change one thing and see what happens.......... if you change 5 things and its fixed, you will never know what it was for next time.

There's better people than I to offer advice and help but I'd suggest you could rethink these statements... I would also like to think I am an expert problem solver in my own field. But when you have lost 400L (or is it 600L), perhaps its time for some radical changes. The priority now is probably just to get some beer successfully brewed, fermented and in the glass ok.

Change 10 things if you have to... if something seems remotely suspect, simplify it. e.g. use dried yeast and sprinkle it on top - don't rehydrate it. Once you've done a few successful brews and got some confidence back... start reintroducing the things you changed one by one and see it if reoccurs.

I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of this whatever your approach. I sure hope its the next beer!

cheers, Andrei

 

[Tony]

mate ive been fighting this on and off for 12 months now.

I have tries about everything. I have come back and made good beer then something else hits.

I have found mand different areas in my brewing that have caaused the infections, and eliminated them one at a time. I belive i may be on top of it all now.

As i type, i stink of bleach.......... the road outside is glowing white from bleach. Cars are crashing as the drivers are blinded by the light from how clean my gutter is.............. if the fermenters are dirty..... i have a problem.

I strerlised everything tonight as screwey sugested, mega bleach solution for 20 min followed by an iodophur hit. I stripped everything to individual pieces, removes fermenter lid orings........ the works.

I pitched a no chilled Scottish 70/- with US-05 ( i tipped my 1728. may not have been infected but i didnt trust it). I poured a cup o boiled cooled water in the bottom of the fermenter......... tipped in the dry US-05, left fort 10 min to re hydrate and then poured in the cube. aireate with a tripple steralised spoon and sealed up.

Also megs bleached a fresh fermenter, ran the CAP into it and pitched a heap of fresh WLP833 at 15 deg. Put in the fridge and it working its way down to 10 deg now.

I believe i have learnt a lot about brewing, sanitation, my equipment and how to manage it from all this. 400 liters may seel like a lot but at 50 liter batches over the last 12 months its not to bad. I have had runs of bad then good then bad. It has changed constantly and i thing the infection has changed too............. different germs, different sources. ITs a matter of weed them out one at a time. If i change 10 things and it comes good............. what was it? How do i combat it next time.......... ive learnt nothing!

Yes i may have clean beer but the question will still remain unanswered!

cheers

 

[andreic]

Fair enough reply. I thought you'd lost 400L with not much drinkable beer in between. Sounds like you have the right approach for your circumstances then! I hope you've got it licked now!

 

[Tony]

Mate.......... i apreciate your help.......... i have tipped out hundreds of liters, some in betwween has been good and some in between this has been "drinkable"............ just. I put up with it because its tolerable and i cant afford to pour it all down the drain.

Its been a constant chanking senerio which has nade it dificult to narrow down.

I got infections here and there when i started out and a good bleaching and it was gone for good. Not this time........... after all the years of brewing, all the places i didnt realise would cause problems came and bit me........ all at once.

Im sorting them out one at a time. different places, different germs. I think it was a lot of coincidence that they all hit at once...... a few different spots and infections mized in together. Slowly fixing them.

Racked the oktoberfest tonight to use the yeast for the cap and the oktoberfect tasted great.

time will tell and i will go from there.

Watch my Blog for updates

cheers

 

[pablo_h]

What ever you find as the ultimate cause, I'd be interested in learning. I have the same problem, some good, some bad. Some down the sink, some just drinkable. Bleach, starsan, boiling everything has not been a factor. Some of the good ones have been fermented with starters, some of the bad ones have been fermented with fresh dry yeast. :blink:

 

[Zizzle]

Hi Tony,

Commiserations mate, good on you for posting about your plight.

I'm sure a lot of us here are trained problem solvers and appreciate your approach of one change at a time.

The other approach to take is to strip the post boil routine back to basics and one at a time, reintroduce your niceties.

So I was just wondering: what is a foolproof post boil routine? What would I do?

I can imagine a kettle with no tap. Just a piece of silicon hose where the tap would be. Keep one end higher that the wort (loop it under the handle) until the boil is finished. Don't bother chilling, just run straight into a brand new sanitized fermenter. Leave it in the fridge a few hours until pitching temp is reached. Sprinkle dried yeast. Don't take any samples. Just wait a generous amount of time for it to ferment out. No filtering, just straight into the keg/bottles.

It might not make the nicest beer, but hopefully be infection free.

Anyway, keep up the fight. I look forward to seeing this one resolved.

 

[Tony]

Good thinking Zizzle, but what about the wort that will get in the hose and not be boiled.............. i supose you could recirc some during the boil.

I dont know if there is such a thing as a fool proof post boil routine...... there will always ba a place where something can go wrong.

I will see how these 2 brews i put down yesterday go, one brewed on the rig, one brewed in an esky and no chilled.

The oktoberfest i racked last night tasted fine, clean with a touck of lager yeast sulphur. ITs going into CC today after a rest at about 16 deg for 24 hrs.

fingers crossed

Oh........ does anyone know of a good well priced source of 3 piece ball valves ?

cheers

 

[LethalCorpse]

Geordi is $28.60 inc. for a 3piece 1/2in BSP.

Have you pulled apart the compression fittings to see what they look like inside? Because wort can get around the ends of the pipe up to the seal, it's an easy hiding place that's difficult to clean without disassembly. What about your pump?

 

[Tony]

yeah clean out compression fittings ect after each brew. There arent any outside or after the kettle anyway so its all been boiled, including the compression fittings.

The pump............. its pre boil!, its no different to the walls of the mash tun........ and who steralises their mash tun?

I probably shouldnt have asked that

Now...... Screwey!

I have a bone to pick with you!

You sent me a long winded almost PP post epic PM the other day.

mate................. if i lived closer to you i would be at your place and give you a hug

You were right about the lines and tap.

I have been so consumed with fermenters (i used an e just for you) and the like i forgot about my lines. I have rinsed them out but not really "nuked" them so to speak.

I hot causticed them tonight for an hour. I poured a beer and drank it slowly while it soaked to remind myself of the funny tastes........... not offensive........ just something that shouldnt be there.

I opened the tap and the caustic came our like a brown ale. I almost threw up. i almost cried. I jumped for joy and shouted.......... screwey your a f@#ken legend!

Flushed out with 80 odd deg water and hooked the keg back up.

Its a differnt beer.

ITS F@#KEN BEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, Its beer i tell ya.

not funky

not sour

ITS BEER!

And then the penny dropped.

I chucked out all my yeast :huh: <_<

Oh well.......... thats not a problem

now all i need is the fermenting beers to be clean and i will be happy.

Check my blog thing for my regular rants and raves on the saga

cheers

 

[schooey]

:lol:

Good for you, mate... It's just good to see you in a better frame of mind. Hopefully you're on top of it now...

Looking forward to a beer or two on Satdee

 

[Tony]

Geordi is $28.60 inc. for a 3piece 1/2in BSP.

Great tip LC............ and what a site.......... I drooled all over my keyboard.

cheaper than others

cheers

 

[altstart]

Gooday Tony
I started AG in 2005 I got 4 brews ok then an infection set in and I lost 900 ltrs to it. I pulled my system apart searching for the cause before I found the cause it was the kettle tap. I had thought of the tap and dismissed it as the cause because of the fact that it would be sterilised by the boil. Dumb move when I finally looked it was obvious I had found the problem and yes I sterilise every thing including the Mash tun and the Kettle.
Cheers Altstart

 

[Tony]

Stripped both my kettle taps last inght to little bits and soaked in the caustic solution i pot through my lines......... this dreen/grey mist decended rom them to the bottom of the bucket they were soaking in.

they are clean now and will get stripped every time.

cheers

 

[Pumpy]

Hey Tony ,

It seems that this problem has occurred since you moved home .

buy a fresh wort kit and see if you get the same problem it may not be in your system ?

Is it in the air ?

Pumpy :unsure:

 

[WitWonder]

Stripped both my kettle taps last inght to little bits and soaked in the caustic solution i pot through my lines......... this dreen/grey mist decended rom them to the bottom of the bucket they were soaking in.

they are clean now and will get stripped every time.

cheers

Tony I posted about an odd flavour that was occasionally present in my beers and I think the source was the kettle valve. The keg was inherited and came with a three piece valve and the keg iteself used to be used for wine or something along those lines. When I took the valve apart (it was filthy) and dropped it into some Napisan it had the same effect as you describe above - some odd coloured mist rising from the parts in the bucket.

I've only done one brew since then and that's probably going to have an odd flavour due to some rusty chain making its way into the kettle during brewing thanks to the assistant (hard to get good help) but I think (hope) at least the other odd flavour might be gone in future! Hopefully yours is too!