400 Liters Lost To Infection

[Tony]

Oh believe me...... ive come close to crying before. I found the last one was infected just as we had a friend here who is a pro photographer. She was going to d oa family shoot for us. I just couldnt smile.... no matter how hard i tried and when the kids made it dificult i blew up and sent them all to their rooms and canceled the whole thing!

I wont give up though................. NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!!

here are some pics. HEre is what i had before... the text will describe

I have seperated the lines from the mash tun and the outlet to the firmenter. I have made the outler to the firmenter easily removable by way of a barrel union so i can clean it after every brew.

cleaning the outlet from the kettle to the firmenter will now be much easier if you compare it to the old plumbing

This is inside the kettle. one is the pickup to drain to the firmenter.... its has a SS mesh FB to stop the hops and break..... it works well to!

here is a shot of the overall dodgy job i did of the pipe work. I didnt have any new pipe so i had to bend and twist what was there. i had to straiten out un-needed bends nad make new ones so the pipe looks like i ran over it with a truck but i will work. One line runs to the top of the pump and one to the bottom of the pump.... too easy.

I pressure tested the chiller coil today and found a very small leak in a soldered joint. It makes one drop every 2 minuites in a closed presurised system and has probably been there forever so im not to worried about it. nothing comes out when its an open circuit like when im chilling. will get it fixed anyway.... just in case.

This post was mainly intended to make people think about their systems and that nasties may be lurking where you least suspect. I flush that out every time i brewed but obviously flushing wasnt enouogh.

you live and learn hey.

cheers

 

[Darren]

Tony,

All those fittings (elbows) are probably all full of "gunk". Maybe not as much as in the ball-valves but there no doubt.

I cant be stuffed looking back, but what was your sanitiser? Have you changed it during your problems? Sometimes a good dose of a different sanitiser can help to knock those resistent "bugs" off.

cheers

Darren

 

[mika]

I flush my system and still pull the taps apart every 3 brews and find some sort of residual left in there. I've always flushed with tap water (cold), which I don't think is very good at removing sugar deposits. Some nice 100deg water would be the go, pump it around for 5min or so to dissolve all that is left.

I know the professionals have plumbed in systems, but I don't like the idea of them. They also do full caustic boils, that's gotta be a risky business. I connect all my silicone hoses with hosetails and Bunnings butterfly clamps, every valve and fitting can come completely to pieces and be cleaned every 3 or 4 brews and I only use the pump for moving water around. The Mashtun gravity drains to the kettle, the kettle gravity drains to the fermentor. If I was to start over again I'd buy a peristaltic pump and pump everything around.
No infections as yet, but then the brewery's young, there's still time.

 

[Tony]

HEy darren.

I havnt changed sanatisers. Im not to worried about all the other pipes. THey all end up in the kettle and it all gets bouled for an hour or more. After im finished i fill the HLT and heatit to 70 deg and pump it through every pipe in the system to flush it out. half the HLT goes into the mash tun, then into the kettle then to drain and then i repeat. I have pulled apart some of the other fittings in the system and its all clean as a whistle.

the only tap that never gets the full 50 liters of hot water flush is the one in question that feeds to the firmenter.

that problem is solved now.

The system makes great beer...... i help it out where i can. It got a germ in a bad spot and i fixed it. Im not going to be ditching the hard plumbed system as i fild it great to brew with.

we are all different though hay.

Cheers

 

[Darren]

Tony,

What sanitiser are you using? Bugs become resistent to any sanitiser especially if used at low-concentration. I would recommend you pump some hot napisan around your system for an hour or so, leave it overnight then follow-up with a a change of sanitiser and a good, strong dose of it. Pump some of it real hot throughout the whole system, then leave it again overnight. Use the new sanitiser on all firmenters, hoses, kegs and beer lines.

cheers

Darren

 

[Tony]

I gave it a nappysan hit 2 months back when all this started and rotate between iodophur and bleach in the firmenters

Will look into something different but none of that would have helped me with this problem because the tap in question was in a spot where it didnt get recirculation through it when i did clean out the system.

Thats why ive re plumbed it!

cheers

 

[bugwan]

My system is far simpler than yours Tony, but I always backflush with mains pressure after a brew, closing and opening ball valves as I go to make sure I clean out the crap that gets jammed in the valve itself. The first time I did this on my kettle (after about 3 brews), a four inch, black, slimy piece of crud flew out of the pickup tube into the kettle...

I no-chill, so that may have saved me on these occasions... I use barrel unions too - I dismantle every few brews to check everything out now.

 

[Adamt]

Three words...

Caustic the mofo.

 

[petesbrew]

400litres? Geez, I'm getting disheartened at my 100litres of infected beer lately.
All the best wishes for you with getting back to making drinkable beer, Tony
Pete

 

[damoncouper]

eek. This is why I got a 3 piece tap, although I have never bothered to clean the sucker properly. Excuse me for a minute I have to go check something..

 

[newguy]

Three words...

Caustic the mofo.

Even caustic doesn't completely clean things out. I have a friend that works at a local micro and they suddenly developed an infection issue. They have a plate style heat exchanger for chilling, and after every use it gets flushed with hot superconcentrated caustic in a closed loop for 30 minutes, then flushed with water. After addressing/examining everything else to try & find the cause of the infections, they actually dismantled the HE. It was totally encrusted with crap. Almost clogged, in fact. It hadn't been dismantled for the 13 years they had been in operation, but now it is routinely taken apart once a month.

 

[Doc]

A very sad post to see indeed Tony.
Hopefully you are on top of the situation now.
Impromptu brewday for me today as my daughter is sick, so I'm home.
Checked out the kettle tap a bit more than the usual eyeball and it has a little bit of surface matter on it, but nothing major. Gave it a good scub through with a babies bottle, bottle brush and it looks like new.
Hopefully you have saved a few others brewers batches.

Beers,
Doc

 

[Cortez The Killer]

On the back of this thread I finally got around to pulling apart my pick up / tap on my kettle after 14 batches

No visible mold thankfully - but there a very strong malt / sugar smell and a brown almost syrupy like substance

Also some dried gunk that seems to accumulate in the kettle

It was pretty gross

All the bits are now soaking in pure sodium percarbonate in the bottom of the kettle

I no chill and recirculate a few litres during the boil to make sure my hose is sanitised (that fills the cube) - This process could help reduce the instances of infection

Thanks for the heads up Tony

Now to rebuild my kegs and clean the mash tun - nothing like the fear of infection to get someone into action

Cheers

 

[Tony]

Id say thats whai i had in mine. After about 50 more batches than 14 it obviously turned to mould.

Brewede again yesterday with the new mods and clean pipework so will see how it goes.

cheers

 

[Darren]

Hey Tony,

How many no-chills did you do?

Could it be that you selected for heat resistant spoilage organisms in your system?

cheers

Darren

 

[SJW]

I gave it a nappysan hit 2 months back when all this started and rotate between iodophur and bleach in the firmenters

Iodophor, yes. Bleach, No way. Esspecially near fErmenters that stuff sticks like shite to a blanket. PINK STAIN has to be the best cleaner on the market. That stuff will get anything looking like new.

Steve

 

[Darren]

Hey SJW,

Looks like one of those that we need to agree to disagree on this one.

Chlorine will kill before iodine but both will stick to plastic.

cheers

Darren

(PS Tony, if you are still using the same firmenters just buy some new ones, they only last about a year at the most)

 

[Tony]

Hey Tony,

How many no-chills did you do?

Could it be that you selected for heat resistant spoilage organisms in your system?

cheers

Darren

No no chills from this system.... only done a few over time........ one won a state comp and a first place in its catagory at the AABC, one i made during all this infection buisness to replace an infected beer in the HAG case swap.

The award winner was made 2 years ago when the system was fresh and the other was made in completly different mash tun and kettle.

Thats what got me looking in my rig. The beers i have made in the esky and smaller kettle have turned out fine.

Im not sure what jerm jargon your takin about there mate, sounds like your saying i selected the slime that grew in the tap that i never checked because i "ASSUMED" it was clean.

I wont assume again i can tell ya

cheers

 

[Tony]

Steve........... i use bleach to steralise after firmentation and rinse out 24 hours later. I put in about a 1/4 cup and fill to the top (60 liter firmenter)

I rinse 3 or 4 times with a good spray nozzle on the hose and its fine......... cant smell it.

I then dry the firmenter and give it a hit with iodophur before duty. Too easy.

Comp results and picky brewing friends and family say there is no bleach in there!

cheers

 

[Darren]

Chuck your firkin old firmenters. Good to see you have taste buds.

cheers

Darren