400 Liters Lost To Infection

[Tony]

I have been plagued by infection after infection in the lest few months. and making 50 liters at a time, it doesnt take long to rack up a score like 800 schooners down the drain.
:angry:

The first infection that ruined 5 batches was a dodgy firmenter that i used to rack to. THe beer would be fine after primary but once racked would form a white scum on the surface and get a funny taste to it. I replaced all my taps, gromets ect, new racking tube, steralised teh firmenter fridge, and threw the ofending firmenter to the tip, litterally. I drove it there myself! It had a cavity in the thick plactic base that went yellow and it smelt like a dead animal, even after a massive bleach bath that would kill a brown dog!

things were looking up..... i made a keolsch and i was very excited when i got it on tap and it was fantastic. I then made a Munich Dunkel and had a compression fitting on my chiller fail and drip pool water into the chilled brew :angry: It got the same funky white scum infection in the end which tells me that the fitting had been leaking for a while. I recon the bug from the pool water got into the firmenter cavity and stayed there.

Back on your horse, i told myself. I fixed the chiller and put in nice strong barrel unions that wont leak like the old worn out compression fittings that didnt like getting undone and done up over and over.

I brewed again..... a nice pale ale, light amber in colour with B-SAAZ and POR. It was a great beer, with no sign of infection...... i thought once again, ive beat it!

How wrong was I!!!!!!!!

THe next brew, a light coloured, "slightly better than swill" experiment to make a beer for a work function was looking great. I ran it onto the yeast cake from the previous B-SAAZ Pale ale as it wasnt infected and thought..... it will be right. After a week in primary at 19 deg it was done and on tasting it my heart sank. It had a sour flavour and aroma....... Infection, but different to the funky white scum germ.

GReat..... a different one to fight.

I thought...... ahhhh the fermenter must have had something on the side of it that got washed in...... i got lazy..... dont run into a used firmenter again!

So next weekend i brewed an english special bitter. lots of first gold and challenger hops, and a fresh Wyeast 1272 American ale 2. Fresh start, clean firmenter, new yeast, should be all good right?

Wrong

Same sour infection as the last one. So on finding this i declared............. NO MORE BREWING!

not till i find the source of this nightmare.

So last night i got thinking. I figured these ones were infected from the start. the kettle was sterile after the boil, the firmenter was sterile, along with everything else used, new yeast ect. It must be betweem the kettle and the firmenter.
So i stripped the pipework and fittings and was rather shocked at what i found. Slime and mould in the tap that feeds from the kettle to the firmenter.

So the kettle pipework arangement is being completly re-designed. It will be done with barelunions that can be easily undone for cleaning and the pipe to feed the firmenter (i gravity feed) will be seperated from the line from the mash tun so no cross contamination can happen from unboiled wort when running to the firmenter.

I will post pics of what i do the the pipework later.

here is the tap and fitting before and after

 

[oldbugman]

No chill might have bandaided it.

So it makes you wonder what everyones taps are really like.

 

[mika]

:icon_vomit:

Here's hoping you've got it sorted now Tony.

 

[winkle]

I lost a few batches to a crud build up in my kettle tap as well Tony, I feel your pain. Strip clean and sanitise everytime now-days.

 

[sqyre]

I lost a few batches to a crud build up in my kettle tap as well Tony, I feel your pain. Strip clean and sanitise everytime now-days.

+1

I clean and sanitise at the end of the brew day and sanitise again at the start of a brew day.
I have since gotten rid of my pickup tube so the only thing between the kettle is a 1" ball valve a brass 3/4" male garden hose fitting (and its female counterpart) and 2 feet of clear plastic hose.
All of which i can easily pull apart and clean and the size allows for getting inside with a rag/brush..
(also gets the wort into the fermenter heaps quicker)
i also use the same male garden hose fittings on my H.L.T and Mash Tun outlets so i use the same 2 foot clear hose for all 3 steps.


(pic is of out of the mash tun outlet but my Kettle outlet is on the side)

Sqyre..

 

[NRB]

Before I'd got to the bottom of your story Tony, I was going to suggest you check that tap for signs of growth. It's a commonly overlooked item that needs a good clean. People who no-chill and use CFWCs don't seem to have the problems with kettle tap scum that immersion chillers do in terms of contamination.

I bet the next one's a beauty!

[edit] spelling

 

[oldbugman]

I bet the next one's a beauty!

I bet he's getting thirsty.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I bet he's getting thirsty.

Should we start up a collection?

 

[Jye]

Tony, have you thought about recirculating your wort while boiling? This sanities everything during the boil, makes chilling more efficient and the path from the kettle to fermenter can now be sanitised during the boil. Ive been doing this for ages now because I didnt like the idea of not being able too clean/sanitise the ball valve.

 

[floppinab]

Tony,

Wondering how long has it been since you put your setup together till when you started finding the infections?? I guess I'm wondering how long should we be looking at between cleans for those ball valves. I'm no chilling so although I don't expect any hassles I don't like the idea of that sort of crud buidling up in my tube and valves.

 

[randyrob]

Hey Tony,

sorry to hear that, i think many a man would have thrown in the towel in by now give your bad luck.

have you thought about investing in some 3 piece valves? they are easy to strip down and clean.

Rob.

 

[KHB]

Sorry to hear your troubles hope it all turns out for ya

 

[paul]

I got rid of my plastic fermenter because it was hard to clean where the threads of the taps are and inside of the tap. Im now using a 50L keg. Its easier to clean and doesnt get a smell to it.

 

[oldbugman]

oh, also when cleaning out your taps in situ, crack the valves half way.

 

[Zizzle]

I'm not so sure no-chill would always save you in this case.

But yeah, I'd dare say 400 litres worth of ingredients would pay for a three piece SS ball valve.

 

[Tony]

How long ahs the rig been together..... id say that valve has been where it is for 3 years or more. Im shocking for that.... learning from mistakes. I tend to wait till it gives me strife then fix it.

As for recirculating during the boil.... i thought about it to get circulation over my chiller coil but not going to go down that road yet..... one day once ive got this problem sorted.

I have spent the afternoon re plumbing the kettle and its come up a treat. The unbioled mash liquor has been plumbed to a seperate circuit to the firmenter outlet and i made the ball valve to the firmenter easily removable with a barrel union for cleaning after each brew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im convinced this was my problem..... along with the leaking chiller fitting. Both of which have been fixed. All i have to do now is pressure test my chiller to be sure nothing leaks. I have a ball valve on one end.... will shut it and see if it leaks on town water presure. thats 10x more than the open head pressure it has when chilling.

will post come pics later on tonight when its complete...... i just have to modify and fit a pipe in the kettle.

cheers

 

[MVZOOM]

Tony, glad you figured it out. 400L is a big loss and would make lesser brewers either cry or give up. Or both!

Cheers - Mike

 

[schooey]

How long ahs the rig been together..... id say that valve has been where it is for 3 years or more. Im shocking for that.... learning from mistakes. I tend to wait till it gives me strife then fix it.

As for recirculating during the boil.... i thought about it to get circulation over my chiller coil but not going to go down that road yet..... one day once ive got this problem sorted.

I have spent the afternoon re plumbing the kettle and its come up a treat. The unbioled mash liquor has been plumbed to a seperate circuit to the firmenter outlet and i made the ball valve to the firmenter easily removable with a barrel union for cleaning after each brew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im convinced this was my problem..... along with the leaking chiller fitting. Both of which have been fixed. All i have to do now is pressure test my chiller to be sure nothing leaks. I have a ball valve on one end.... will shut it and see if it leaks on town water presure. thats 10x more than the open head pressure it has when chilling.

will post come pics later on tonight when its complete...... i just have to modify and fit a pipe in the kettle.

cheers

I really hope you've got it sorted, mate. Any chance of some photo's of the new plumbing?

 

[matti]

I thought I was perseverant in my brewing but you really beat me on this one Tony.
Good to see hehe.
I leave my hoses, taps and connections in caustic solution day or two prior brewing just in case and still I can't brew the perfect drop.
I'll persevere
HOP it to the till

 

[kook]

After seeing all these kettle tap pics lately I decided to unscrew mine after cleaning up from brewing earlier. It is a little gungy, but more from scale than organic matter. Still going to take everything apart and give it a good soaking though.

Usually about 1/2 hr into the boil I drain 500ml out of the kettle into a jug then pour it back on top. Also give the quick disconnect a spray inside & out with santiser. I think this combined with the fact that I use a CFWC has prevented any infections.