400 Liters Lost To Infection

[LethalCorpse]

I think we spend too much time worrying about sanitisation when cleanliness can be equally important, both pre- and post-boil. The boil might kill any bacteria that's living there, but it won't remove the flavours it's produced while living there. Imagine taking rotten veges out of the fridge, boiling the crap out of them, and eating them, or even one rotten vege and a load of fresh ones. Sure, the bugs are dead, and it won't kill you, but it's going to taste like arse. It's a similar process when you pump fresh wort through fittings that have been happily growing gunk on leftover wort in their seams, threads and seals since the last brew. With that in mind, it makes sense for HLT, mashtun, pump and plumbing to all get the same breakdown and cleaning procedures as the kettle and fermenters, with the only difference being one-shot in the fermenters and post-boil plumbing.

 

[Tony]

Good point LC

I do heat around 40 liters of water to about 70 deg and pump it through every pipe in the system to clean out all the sugars, break and grain and hop bits.

I have pulled the pipes apart recently and found them to be spotless because of this.......... i spend 1 to 2 hrs cleaning it out after each brew!

It was the few places i never thought of that bit me in the end and i now know of them.

That is the one good thing about hard plumbing with SS and copper.......... they dont hold aroma of what has been on them like plastic, i find if i close my esky mash tun up after cleaning out, it is a bit musky when i open it but the SS mash tun.......... no chance. It smells like air!

Does anyone in the hunter valley area who might be reading this know of a place when i can aquire cuastic ?

cheers

 

[Quintrex]

Good point LC

I do heat around 40 liters of water to about 70 deg and pump it through every pipe in the system to clean out all the sugars, break and grain and hop bits.

I have pulled the pipes apart recently and found them to be spotless because of this.......... i spend 1 to 2 hrs cleaning it out after each brew!

It was the few places i never thought of that bit me in the end and i now know of them.

That is the one good thing about hard plumbing with SS and copper.......... they dont hold aroma of what has been on them like plastic, i find if i close my esky mash tun up after cleaning out, it is a bit musky when i open it but the SS mash tun.......... no chance. It smells like air!

Does anyone in the hunter valley area who might be reading this know of a place when i can aquire cuastic ?

cheers

Hey Tony
Congrats on what I hope is the end of your epic fight.
Get drain cleaner at a local hardware! you can buy ones that are straight sodium hydroxide, considering you will rinsing it well after, this grade should be fine.

Q

 

[Ross]

Does anyone in the hunter valley area who might be reading this know of a place when i can aquire cuastic ?

cheers

Tony,

I've got some trial packs of PBW which I'm told by the manufacturers out performs caustic in pretty well every department, yet is perfectly safe; you can even wash your clothers & hands in it.
Drop me a line if you are interested & i'll send you a free container for your feedback & hopefully an end to your nightmare.

cheers ross

 

[Tony]

pm sent

You can wash your clothers in it (oh that felt good)

I will try it in the kegs

cheers mate

 

[schooey]

Does anyone in the hunter valley area who might be reading this know of a place when i can aquire cuastic ?

cheers

You can buy it in the drain cleaner section at Woolies...

about $2.50 for 500g

or go have a look at these dudes if you want to go bulk. They sell everything from caustic to beer line cleaner

 

[Doc]

I have been so consumed with fermenters (i used an e just for you) and the like i forgot about my lines. I have rinsed them out but not really "nuked" them so to speak.

I hot causticed them tonight for an hour. I poured a beer and drank it slowly while it soaked to remind myself of the funny tastes........... not offensive........ just something that shouldnt be there.

I opened the tap and the caustic came our like a brown ale. I almost threw up. i almost cried. I jumped for joy and shouted.......... screwey your a f@#ken legend!

Flushed out with 80 odd deg water and hooked the keg back up.

Its a differnt beer.

ITS F@#KEN BEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, Its beer i tell ya.

Thank god Tony. Hopefully the light at the end of the tunnel.

Hearing your pain, I thought it was time I did a full strip of my taps as I haven't done a full strip of the Ventmatic Ultra-flo's since they were purchased in a bulk buy a few years back.
I also hadn't done a full line clean in a month or so.
The taps were almost spotless inside and the lines looked ok. I even disconnected the JG flow controllers and cleaned. All good.
So all fully soaked, flushed and cleaned.
I know if I hadn't done that with the brumby's or andale taps there would have been a whole bunch of crud at the back of the tap where it mounts onto the font. No need to get complacent though

Doc

 

[randyrob]

It is hereby announced JULY 22ND is from this day foward International "Clean your Taps & Lines Day"

Mark it in your calendar, someone mark it in the AHB Calendar!

 

[Tony]

:lol:

 

[katzke]

Tony,

I've got some trial packs of PBW which I'm told by the manufacturers out performs caustic in pretty well every department, yet is perfectly safe; you can even wash your clothers & hands in it.
Drop me a line if you are interested & i'll send you a free container for your feedback & hopefully an end to your nightmare.

cheers ross

I love the stuff. Been using it from day one, less then a year now.

I have found it does not work very well cold. It does not need to be hot just warm like a soak in the tub. I use it on bottles and the carboy. Have never used a bottlebrush and only brushed the carboy a few times. If you leave it for days it will go bad and stuff will grow in it. I have used the same batch over 2 days soaking bottles with no problems as long as I freshen it up and add hot water. It works great on labels with regular glue.

Don't let the wife get any as it works great at cleaning the baked on gunk around the kitchen. A good use for the leftovers is to fill the sink and soak the baking pans.

Caustic still has its uses like cleaning old skunky kegs. Something I need to do so will ask how you use sodium hydroxide to clean kegs? I have one that had gear oil in the bottom. The guy I got it from swears that a caustic clean and acid wash will make it good as new.

 

[LethalCorpse]

erm...how the hell does a keg get full of gear oil? You didn't buy that keg, you rescued it from unspeakable abuse.

 

[katzke]

erm...how the hell does a keg get full of gear oil? You didn't buy that keg, you rescued it from unspeakable abuse.

Well was not full but had some in the bottom. Claims he did not know but it was under his work bench and a room mate may have spilled some and it dripped in.

 

[Doogiechap]

Tony thanks for sharing this with the community. I for one have become more pro active in my cleaning and sanitizing regime and I'm sure that I am not alone here I hope you have won the bug battle

Well was not full but had some in the bottom. Claims he did not know but it was under his work bench and a room mate may have spilled some and it dripped in.

:icon_offtopic:
Apparently in the States post mix kegs are often filled with grease and it's dispensed under pressure with a grease gun. A popular option in push bike shops. :blink:

 

[fraser_john]

What a read!!! This thread is a real insight.

I still gotta say I love my steam generator! Everything post-boil gets nailed with pressurised steam for at least 5 minutes, CFC, fermenter, kegs, tubes, racking canes, everything bar air locks, I wish they would not shrink when hit with steam!!! but starsan looks after the airlocks.

 

[Tony]

Update.

Still getting infections, but i think i have it licked now!

I recently PBW'd everything in my system and a lot of muck came out but that was all pre boil.

I have also noticed my No-Chill beers dont get infected. Beers that are chilled are getting infected once fermentation stops and the yeast isnt putting up a fight any more.

So it must be inbetween the boiler and the fermenter.

I have the tap clean but the racking hose! Ahhhhh the racking hose.

I always soal it in bleach of Iodophur before using but this doesnt seem to be doing the job. And its a line designed for compressed air, not liquid.

So it got a length of Silicon tube, ditched the old hose and the one brew i made with it is tasting fine.

Thank God!

fingers crossed.

cheers

 

[Pumpy]

Update.

Still getting infections, but i think i have it licked now!

I dont think licking it clean is going to work Tony .

Your mouth still has bacteria in it .

Thats why you should not syphon beer by sucking the end of the hose as it transfers the mouth bacteria to the hose and thus infects the beer again .

Best of luck with finding a cure I think it may be airbourne bacteria that is causing you a problem.

The infection may be in your Fermentation fridge ?

Pumpy :huh:

 

[Stuster]

I have the tap clean but the racking hose! Ahhhhh the racking hose.

You didn't toss all plastic items before. :angry: :lol:

Any other plastic bits and pieces post-boil you still have that "should be ok".

 

[beers]

I hear your pain Tony. I've been struggling to keep, what I suspect to be a mold infection, at bay for well over 12 months now. I couldn't tell you how many litres I've tipped down the sink Most beers taste fine when transferring to the keg, but then a woody, earthy musty flavour continues to build up over time. Earlier on other beers were picking it up in primary, but i seemed to have nailed that issue (except for when I opened the fermentor in the fridge mid ferment a few weeks back to check out a lack of krausen)
I've gone OCD with sanitising - everything I use (fermentors, kegs, taps, disconnects, hoses etc.) get pulled apart after use & soaked in sodium percarbonate, then soaked or rinsed with star san or iodophor before using again. I even boil up my hoses about once a month.
I'm at the point where I'm almost certain that it's caused by a mold in my fermenting fridge, which is now in my keg fridge too :angry: (I pulled everything out of both fridges last weekend & wiped everything down with star san - fingers crossed). The area I live in is pretty "damp" & mold prone.
My latest theory is that I'm getting some spores on the inside of the outlet on the tap of the fermentor. Thats the only thing that generally doesn't come into contact with star san on transferring. & even though I clean & sanitise it before filling the fermentor, a week in a fridge (that occasionally gets a bit of mold growth) & i doubt it would be still sanitary at transfer time. I got a beer to transfer tonight so I'm going to try soaking the outlet (with a medicine cup taped up to the tap & filled with star san) & giving it a good going over with a tooth brush before the transfer. I've actually contemplated switching over to a glass carboy & racking siphon to see if that helps.

Good luck with it Tony ..I know how frustrated you must be feeling - I was actually needing to brew today but cannot be arsed putting in the effort (AG = 5+ hrs) to lose another batch to infection. Might pick up a FWK next week instead.

 

[OLDS2006]

I have found bleach to break down various forms of plastic eg scrubbing brushes, spray bottles, hard hat parts.
With the spray bottle 50/50 bleach and water I would get a black slime like squid ink if used once or twice a month, not much but enough to wonder ?
So now I don`t use bleach with any plastic materials.
Darren

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

Sorry to hear about your infection problems there Beers and Tony. (farside bows his head in a minutes silence to all that lost liquid gold)

Also in regards to killing mould, it's a bit of a misconception that bleach kills mould, it won't kill the spores that lurk in whatever it's growing in. That's why it always comes back after a little while.

Maybe an email to fivestar chemicals could enlighten us in a way to get rid of mould.

I remember watching a show on tele and the way they were killing it was a mixture of alcohol and white vinegar i mixed 50/50 (I think).

Some times it can be easier to just throw whatever away and get a new one, especially hoses.

Good luck on your quest good sirs to slay thyne enemy.