3600 Watt Handheld Elements

[lastdrinks]

Does anyone know were to buy a 3600 watt handheld immersion element? I can find plenty of 2400watt ones but not 3600 watt ones. To give some background i am going to buy a 92 litre stockpot from G&G and dont want a fitted element, so plan to use 1 3600watt and 1 2400watt handheld immersion elements.

I can then use both elements to get the wort up to boil or mash temp and remove one for a good rolling boil. I want the versatility of both sizes so i can do single and double batches. Does anyone know were to buy one? Tobins will make one up for me but it will take a few weeks and i guess will be pricey. Also if peoples experience says i should be fine with just two 2400watt elements in a pot size of 92litres that would be good to know too.

I dont want to be in the situation were one 2400watt is too little and two 2400watts is too much.

Cheers

 

[Nick JD]

Can a 10amp outlet handle 3600W?

 

[brettprevans]

Can a 10amp outlet handle 3600W?

not if its safe it cant. 3600W will draw ~14amp. if your 10amp outlet is leting you draw more than that its faulty (and so are your fuses).

3600w is generally considered commercial. so you porobabyl only going to find them at commercial outlets (like plumbing stores etc).


edit: I got mine from stokes electrical in ringwood. but they have other outlets. the 3600w element with laser cut housing, and assembly cost me $192. it meets all electrical standards and it safe as. it was one area i wasnt skipping on.

 

[haysie]

I dont want to be in the situation were one 2400watt is too little and two 2400watts is too much.

Cheers

Whats wrong with an on/off switch if the boil is to big or small? Try Grimwood for the 3600.

 

[praxis178]

Can a 10amp outlet handle 3600W?

No.

My kiln draws this much hand I had to get it wired into a 15 (or was is 20/30)amp circuit, so you might be hard pressed to find a handheld element of this size in these safety conscious times.

EDIT: Not an electrician so can't recall what the guy wired it into, but the cable is as round as my thumb!

 

[lastdrinks]

A 10 amp power point cant handle 3600watta but i had my sparky put in a 32amp circuit with two 15amp double power points.

 

[haysie]

3600w is generally considered commercial. so you porobabyl only going to find them at commercial outlets (like plumbing stores etc).

Most likely with the 15 amp plug as well.

 

[brettprevans]

A 10 amp power point cant handle 3600watta but i had my sparky put in a 32amp circuit with two 15amp double power points.

no way dude. it draw 14amp. hence it should trip. unless the circuit is dud. or unless the appliance isnt drawing its full amapage. in which case its not working effectively as 3600w should draw 14amp.

Most likely with the 15 amp plug as well.

yup. forgot to mention that.

and its 20amp electrical cord to make sure all that power doesnt overheat the cord. I also then run a 20amp extention lead to the 15amp outlet. beleive it or not, 3600W at 15amp makes a lot of heat and the cord does heat up.

edit: you can see the housing here. its wired up to a tempmate as the tempmate can handle 20amp.

 

[lastdrinks]

Sorry i must not have been clear. i have a dedicated 32amp circuit run to my garage just for brewing and the power points on that circuit are are 15 amp power points. What i am hoping for is a place to buy a 3600watt handheld immersion element and some advice from people who use handheld immersion elements in pots as big as 92litres about how good rolling boils they get?

i have read a few threads which suggest i could get away with just two 2400 watt elements but I want to be sure before i outlay all this cash.

no way dude. it draw 14amp. hence it should trip. unless the circuit it dud


yup. forgot to mention that.

and its 20amp electrical cord to make sure all that power doesnt overheat the cord. I also then run a 20amp extention lead to the 15amp outlet. beleive it or not, 3600W at 15amp makes a lot of heat and the cord does heat up.

 

[dmac80]

Hey Guys,

A 3600W element will draw 15 amps, so it should have a 15 amp plug installed and will require a separate 15 amp power circuit. A normal 10 A power circuit in a new house these days often will have a 16 amp circuit breaker to protect the cabling in the circuit (not the appliances connected to it) so would probably handle a 15 amp element, but it isn't recommended.

It would be better to have no extension cord if you could get away with it, if not then the shortest 15 amp extension lead you can get would be good to reduce the power losses in the cable.

If in doubt seek the assistance of an electrician.

Cheers
Dan

 

[leiothrix]

The way I understand cabling is that if it is in the open (i.e. not in a bundle, coiled up, in a conduit, or anything else that could make it retain heat), then it is about 0.1mm2 per amp.

I.e. 10A appliance flex is 1.0mm2, 15A is 1.5mm2, etc.

Standard fixed wiring is 2.5mm2 for both a 10A circuit and 15A circuit. Australian standards say something like 8 double 10A power points or one 15A power point for the same cable.

Things like ovens go up to a 4.0mm2 cable.

(Disclaimer, not a sparky, but have read the DIY guide put out by the NZ government, where it is legal to do minor fixed wiring).
Rob.

 

[lastdrinks]

I cant remember what gauge copper my sparky used but i remember it was heavier than the normal loops he put.

The way I understand cabling is that if it is in the open (i.e. not in a bundle, coiled up, in a conduit, or anything else that could make it retain heat), then it is about 0.1mm2 per amp.

I.e. 10A appliance flex is 1.0mm2, 15A is 1.5mm2, etc.

Standard fixed wiring is 2.5mm2 for both a 10A circuit and 15A circuit. Australian standards say something like 8 double 10A power points or one 15A power point for the same cable.

Things like ovens go up to a 4.0mm2 cable.

(Disclaimer, not a sparky, but have read the DIY guide put out by the NZ government, where it is legal to do minor fixed wiring).
Rob.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

You say you have a 92l stock pot but anyone trying to give you advice will need to know the size boil you plan on doing.

For me - I think it depends a lot on how impatient you are. I have boiled a 55L pre-boil volume brew with a single 2400W immersion element... But it took a little tweaking to manage it. It also took a damn long time to get to the boil.

My rough guess is that you won't find two 2400W elements too much at all... That's based on watching 2 x 2400 boiling normal double batches in a 76l pot. It varied between OK and a bit too much... So in a larger pot with a greater volume, I can't se it being too grunty.

Sorry, but I can only project for you...no experience with larger volumes than about 60l.

Good luck.

TB

 

[lastdrinks]

My double batches will come to a volume of around 65 litres. So it sounds like 2x2400watt elements could be spot on in a 92litre pot or maybe just slightly too much. Thanks Thirsty Boy. Was the 76l pot you saw insulated?

You say you have a 92l stock pot but anyone trying to give you advice will need to know the size boil you plan on doing.

For me - I think it depends a lot on how impatient you are. I have boiled a 55L pre-boil volume brew with a single 2400W immersion element... But it took a little tweaking to manage it. It also took a damn long time to get to the boil.

My rough guess is that you won't find two 2400W elements too much at all... That's based on watching 2 x 2400 boiling normal double batches in a 76l pot. It varied between OK and a bit too much... So in a larger pot with a greater volume, I can't se it being too grunty.

Sorry, but I can only project for you...no experience with larger volumes than about 60l.

Good luck.

TB

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I would be concerned about the immersion of the heating elements, which have to be covered by a certain amount of liquid (I'm sure the Grimwoods require 10cm above the coil, which is about 20cm all up). If you're hanging these things over the side of your pot which is (for the sake of this discussion) 60cm high and you have 30cm of liquid in the bottom of the pot and the elements hang 30cm into the pot, you're going to go through a lot of elements.

If you're going to be doing single-sized batches, you element has to be submersed in the liquid to the minimum extent required at the very end of the boil.

When I was using immersion heaters, I rigged up a something that allowed me to attain this with the effect that the elements were always covered *and* the entire element, including the molded plastic cable strain relief were inside the pot (and so being steamed during the boil). I believe that this practice probably helped age the molded plastic cable strain relief prematurely.

Ensure you have ELCBs installed on the circuits you're plugging these things into. Fuses protect cabling, ELCBs protect humans (and so, by derivation, home brewers).

 

[raven19]

You say you have a 92l stock pot but anyone trying to give you advice will need to know the size boil you plan on doing.

For me - I think it depends a lot on how impatient you are. I have boiled a 55L pre-boil volume brew with a single 2400W immersion element... But it took a little tweaking to manage it. It also took a damn long time to get to the boil.

My rough guess is that you won't find two 2400W elements too much at all... That's based on watching 2 x 2400 boiling normal double batches in a 76l pot. It varied between OK and a bit too much... So in a larger pot with a greater volume, I can't se it being too grunty.

Sorry, but I can only project for you...no experience with larger volumes than about 60l.

+1 to TB's comments.

I have done triple batches in my big bertha SS pot - which contains 2 x 2400W elements. Around 80 - 90L preboil volume.

It just takes a little longer to get to the boil, but it does boil. Leave the lid on the pot until you hit the boil.

I left both elements on the whole time to get a reasonable rolling boil (I use sheathed ceramic elements in my kettle).

 

[brettprevans]

i agree with TB and raven's comments about using the elements in the kettle. esp about the ceramic coated elemtns. this will probably start anothewr war about whether elements scorch the wort.

I personally like being able to control my boil (i use gas), so unless you have the elemtns wired up to a controller of some sort i think you might struggle to do so.

maybe TB and/or Raven can give you some info on how they vary the boil using elements.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I personally like being able to control my boil (i use gas), so unless you have the elemtns wired up to a controller of some sort i think you might struggle to do so.

Although without any extra bits, the heat output of the element is fixed, that becomes a benefit. All of the heat coming out of the element goes into your wort. You have to worry about heat loss through the side/top of the kettle, but you have to with gas anyway. With gas, ambient breezes as well as temperature have a quite significant effect on how much heat gets from the flame into the kettle. I miss boiling with immersion heaters...

There are almost-complete (probably also complete) volume controls for high-current devices such as this available. I built one from (almost) scratch using a solid-state relay and a microcontroller that altered the duty cycle of the lecky going into the element over a period, but there must be better ways around it.

I would recommend learning how to deal with the fixed amount of heat coming out. I believe that for many people, having lots of things to tweak means they will tweak all of them in the name of control and will actually probably end up with more variation. (To clarify, this isn't a shot at anyone contributing to this thread.)

 

[leiothrix]

I built one from (almost) scratch using a solid-state relay and a microcontroller that altered the duty cycle of the lecky going into the element over a period, but there must be better ways around it.

I did basically the same thing, except I used a 555 timer IC. Used the circuit from here, with only slight modifications.

Rob.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I did basically the same thing, except I used a 555 timer IC. Used the circuit from here, with only slight modifications.

Rob.

Yer... Yours just has some 30-year old integrated circuit thing. It's almost steampunk! Much harder to impress your friends and family.

Mine has a *micro-controller* in it. Much more 21st century...