i did some looking around yesterday after techno's post and found George Smithwick in Beveridge his number is nine745 two 362 he is a 6th Generation Cooper with his Father and Grandad both worked for one of the big breweries in Collingwood. if he was an hour away from me i'd be in like Flynn pestering him for an aprentiship or something. George didn't get into it until his Dad died when George was around 40 years old and from what I read he is worried that no-one will learn the art .. and at least his knowledge will be lost, he's now 60 or so