Yeast pitching.....FFS there is enough in pack

[mje1980]

A yeast starter is used to initiate cell activity or increase the cell count before using it to make your beer. The yeast will grow in this smaller volume, usually for 1-2 days, which then can be added to 5 gallons of wort.

While a starter is not always necessary, White Labs recommends making a starter if the Original Gravity is over 1.060, if the yeast is past its "Best Before" date, if you are pitching lager yeast at temperatures below 65F, or if a faster start is desired.




The above is copied straight from the white labs website. More idiots!!

Lets face it, what would these fools know about yeast?, I mean they probably have some sort of degree in microbiology or something, so what the hell do they know?!

 

[bum]

You're just buying into the Illuminati conspiracy designed to sell you more yeast.

You don't even need to buy yeast in the first place. There's enough in the air.

 

[bradsbrew]

Yes there is.

I will be blunt.

The standard dry yeast pack and liquid ready packs have enough yeast for a successfully brew.

All this talk of having to use Mr Malty and other such crap is just that. Crap

Sure..if you are brewing more than a std batch of 22lt then.you MAY need more yeast.

It is a different story if you are using agar to provide your starter.

It is reasonably hard to underpitch due to the rate that yeast reproduces in wort.

A yeast starter is used to initiate cell activity or increase the cell count before using it to make your beer. The yeast will grow in this smaller volume, usually for 1-2 days, which then can be added to 5 gallons of wort.

While a starter is not always necessary, White Labs recommends making a starter if the Original Gravity is over 1.060, if the yeast is past its "Best Before" date, if you are pitching lager yeast at temperatures below 65F, or if a faster start is desired.




The above is copied straight from the white labs website. More idiots!!

Lets face it, what would these fools know about yeast?, I mean they probably have some sort of degree in microbiology or something, so what the hell do they know?!

The OP did mention what you have stated.

Both wyeast and whitelabs state you do not have to make a starter within their guidelines.

Within reason(excluding big beers, cold lagers), keeping a consistent temperature within the yeasts range is more important than making a starter.

Having said that my next 3 cube batch will be used as an experiment. Two identical cubes fermented at same temp at same time, 2 smack packs- 1 pitched after swelling, 1 made into a starter as per wyeast calculator. Lets see how much difference it makes.

Cheers

 

[Phillo]

The main thing for me is lag time. I make all of my starters from real wort taken before I fill my cube. Pitch my smack pack into that and wait until high-krausen (there's usually a nice creamy layer of yeast at the bottom, much more than I would have pitched from the pack). Sometimes I'll get signs of fermentation within 3-4 hours if it's a monster (ie. 3787).

Small amount of yeast with unknown viablity? 24hrs+ lag time?

OR

Larger amount of freshly active viable yeast still in its reproductive phase with only a few hours lag time?

I don't use Mr. Malty or Yeast Calc, and maybe I should, but clearly there are several benefits to using starters for liquid/farmed yeast, even if you don't want to get too complicated about things.

 

[GalBrew]

The bullshit spouted in this thread makes me wonder why any noob would come here for homebrewing advice.

 

[NewtownClown]

The wyeast website has a section making starters for "high gravity beer, or cold fermented lagers or ales". What a bunch of idiots huh!

What would Wyeast or White Labs know? They probably believe in the science of climate change, too.
Friggin' white coats know nuthin'!

 

[Nick JD]

Once, I smacked a pack of Wyeast 2001 (Urquell's H strain) and waited for it to swell. After 24 hours, it might have swollen a tiny bit, or it might have just been in my head. Anyway, I couldn't wait any longer, so I pitched it into a 9C wort.

Then nothing happened. 3 days later, nothing happened. Which is about the time I (and everyone else this has happened to) freaks out.

So I dump a pack of S23 in. And remind myself to do two things:

1. Never trust a smackpack's viability, especially if it has been in the post.

2. Always split the smackpack at least 3 ways and make a starter - which both assures you of an adequate pitch (vital to a clean lager), and that you've pitched live yeast.

Paying $10 for a smackpack and $5 for LDME for 5 starters is cheaper than buying dried yeast by half.

 

[NewtownClown]

Awwww, you should've waited at least a week!

Extended lag phase and excessive ester production during the log phase is not an issue!

I know that because i have read this thread...

 

[Nick JD]

Awwww, you should've waited at least a week!

Extended lag phase and excessive ester production during the log phase is not an issue!

I know that because i have read this thread...

Would have been a rotten stinking mess by then. My main avenue of sanitisation is relying on yeast to do their antibiotic thing.

 

[verysupple]

Having said that my next 3 cube batch will be used as an experiment. Two identical cubes fermented at same temp at same time, 2 smack packs- 1 pitched after swelling, 1 made into a starter as per wyeast calculator. Lets see how much difference it makes.

Cheers

Anecdotal evidence is fine, but I'm glad someone is willing to test the hypothesis scientifically (other than the many, many microbiologists and brewing scientists that have already done it )

Just to check, do you have two fermenting fridges? If you put two cubes in the same fridge they won't be fermenting at the same temp. Aside from the fact that the air temp. in the fridge won't be homogeneous, presumably the cube with the larger cell count will produce far more heat than the cube with the lower cell count.

 

[drsmurto]

If you have a fresh smackpack or vial, that is, within a month or 2 of manufacture, and you are pitching the yeast into 20L (or less) of a well oxygenated wort (8ppm of DO minimum) with an OG of less than 1.060, then you don't need to make a starter.

I'd wager, the vast majority of brewers are not able to tick all those boxes in which case, a starter is advised.

If I can tick all those boxes then I will happily use the yeast without making a starter but only when making ales. That rarely happens so I use a starter to revitalise the yeast, build up cell numbers and ensure that I am pitching adequate numbers of yeast to avoid any off flavours developing.

Lagers, as NickJD has pointed out, require a different approach.

The OP has stated that you may need a starter but then states that yeast reproduces in wort sufficiently to make underpitching difficult. That is only true in wort that has a DO of 8+ppm and very few homebrewers achieve this.

The other end of that is overpitching which is a very real risk when people repitch entire yeast cakes. This can result in insufficient cell growth which can lead to thin beers with higher levels of off flavour such as acetaldehyde and diacetyl due to a lack of healthy yeast capable of reabsorbing these compounds.

So you can, sometimes, get away without making a starter but a small starter is not going to result in overpitching and is a very cheap insurance policy. I hate tipping out beer after the effort involved in making it.

 

[fletcher]

here endeth the thread. please.

 

[Tony]

I want to see the results of Brads experiment

 

[NewtownClown]

here endeth the thread. please.

Not until someone mentions that nationalist party that came to power in a european country (neither Italy nor Spain) in the 1930's

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Clive Palmer will sort it

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEkwp_2Yezo&list=UUh_h4W2VmFdo3R8g1XaXN_Q&index=81

 

[treefiddy]

You gonna post a specific time where he reaffirms your point or does somebody have to sit through 38 minutes a "laagers" and "woman owned" for the guy with an economics degree to get to his/your point.

 

[manticle]

Around 14 minutes he starts talking about how to get optimal pitching rates by using starters if you don't want to buy multiple packs. Starter size and time are important.
He then goes onto to suggest exactly how important a good pitch rate is.

Not sure where you are going with this Stu.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I thought it had some points. But 38mins was a bit much

 

[doon]

And it supported your point how?