Wyeast American Ale Failure To Launch

[chillihilli]

Hi Guys,

I brewed up a nice pale ale yesterday with some grain and hops. It was a bigger boil than usual, resulting in a higher wort temperature than usual. I tried to get the wort temp down with chilling in the sink, covering with a wet towel etc. I usually stick it outside in the cool night air, but this wasn't possible at 4:00PM in the afternoon.

I pitched the yeast at what was about 27 deg C, using a a Wyeast American Ale 1056 that had well and truly come alive (the pack was about to burst). I stirred the hell out of the wort to even out the temp as much as possible, then poured the yeast into the swirling brew. The packet suggests a temp of 21 -24. It is in my cellar and slowly cooling down, now sitting on about 25.

I checked it last night before bed... Nothing... But there was a layer of little bubbles on top so I thought it would be OK in the morning. I checked it again this morning. There seems to be a SLIGHT pressure in the airlock evidenced by uneven levels, but there is no bubbling. There is a thicker layer of small bubbles on top which makes me think it is very slowly firing up.

I am surprised it is taking this long. Obviously I pitched at too high a temp, but I wouldn't think it would be that sensitive.

Has anyone had any similar experiences with this yeast before? I used a Witbier strain last week pitched at about 25 and it fired up instantly.

Should I go and get another packet this morning and double pitch to my 18 hour old wort?

 

[Maple]

Hi Guys,

I brewed up a nice pale ale yesterday with some grain and hops. It was a bigger boil than usual, resulting in a higher wort temperature than usual. I tried to get the wort temp down with chilling in the sink, covering with a wet towel etc. I usually stick it outside in the cool night air, but this wasn't possible at 4:00PM in the afternoon.

I pitched the yeast at what was about 27 deg C, using a a Wyeast American Ale 1056 that had well and truly come alive (the pack was about to burst). I stirred the hell out of the wort to even out the temp as much as possible, then poured the yeast into the swirling brew. The packet suggests a temp of 21 -24. It is in my cellar and slowly cooling down, now sitting on about 25.

I checked it last night before bed... Nothing... But there was a layer of little bubbles on top so I thought it would be OK in the morning. I checked it again this morning. There seems to be a SLIGHT pressure in the airlock evidenced by uneven levels, but there is no bubbling. There is a thicker layer of small bubbles on top which makes me think it is very slowly firing up.

I am surprised it is taking this long. Obviously I pitched at too high a temp, but I wouldn't think it would be that sensitive.

Has anyone had any similar experiences with this yeast before? I used a Witbier strain last week pitched at about 25 and it fired up instantly.

Should I go and get another packet this morning and double pitch to my 18 hour old wort?

Holy Crap... well at least you know you pitched hot, so I won't go into that.

1. the layer of bubbles you are seeing is signes it's working.
2. don't ever trust an airlock to gauge fermentation (covered just about 900 times elsewhere)
3. Relax
4. don't pitch another - this one might already be done given the temps
5. take a gravity reading
6. learn from our mistakes

 

[manticle]

7. And make a starter

 

[Supra-Jim]

+1 on manticle's comment.

Whilst the pitching temp is not ideal, 27deg won't kill your yeast, though it may effect the end product (esters, hot alc's etc).

I think what you're experiencing is simply 'lag time'. Your yeast was activated, via smacking, however it still needs to go through a growth phase before it really starts chewing through the sugars.

Ideally when making a starter you have this growth phase occur in the starter and the yeast you pitch have done their stretches and warmup and are ready to race (so to speak!).

So relax, and take a note for next time.

Cheers SJ

 

[Ross]

what lag time???

Pithched after 4pm, bubbles by bed time & a krausen in the morning - All sounds good, even though it's probably fermenting out a bit warm.
Forget your airlock, they often don't work if your lid seal is not perfect, the foam on top is all you need to see.
If the yeast was fresh & not a high alcohol brew, there is no need to build a starter.

Cheers Ross

 

[chillihilli]

+1 on manticle's comment.

Cheers SJ

Yes I was pondering how to avoid this in the future, and thought I could create a starter and use half of it (I bake sourdough from a 7 year old culture so this concept is familiar to me), with a view to pitching the remainder if it didn't fire up straight away or I muffed the temp. As an aside, how long can warm wort sit before it starts getting funky? Learning from my mistakes, my problems here were:

- I made the boil too big (forgot to allow for the water from the grain steeping)
- I pitched too quick which equated to too hot.
- I didn't have any ice to cool the wort in the sink. I was running cool water around it which brought the temp down a little bit.
- It was daytime, so couldn't use the night air to cool it
- Wet towel and a fan didn't seem to work

Thanks for the tips. I'll check it during the day and report how it goes. I hope it's all OK as the aroma coming out of it from the Citra hops smells wicked-good.

Here's the recipe:

- 200g Caramalt steeped 30 mins in 3L water
- Plus another 3L water
- 1kg Light Dry Malt Extract
- 1 can Coopers Pale Ale goo
- Citra pellets 20g @ 30 mins
- Citra pellets 20g @ 15 mins
- Wyeast 1056 American Smakkapakka
- Made up to 21L

SG 1040 (seems low for what it should have been according to calcs)



Cheers Chilli.

 

[therook]

I agree with Ross, if the yeast is fresh why make a starter? I never have and have never lost a brew yet to infection, maybe i'm just lucky

Rook

 

[chillihilli]

Success! I had a look at the fermenter, and could see a good 10mm thick layer of little yeasty microbubbles. This made me think it must be a lack of seal on the fermenter. So I gave the lid about a 1/4 turn and it tightened up nicely. The airlock started bubbling as though someone was blowing air through it with a straw.

Brew temp is a little high at 24 (not ideal), but it will come down over the next few days as ambient temp in the cellar is about 21. That said the temp doesn't fluctuate wildly like it does in my other brewing room (ie the laundry).

 

[under]

You need to get that down to 18 for a better cleaner drop mate. Try an esky with water in in, then add 2l frozen bottles in the morning and at night. Simple.

 

[BrenosBrews]

I had the same panic attack with an American Red Ale. All was good in the end. If your struggling to get the temp down try 1332 Northwest as it can ferment higher. Sure, lower attenuation but that shouldnt be an issue in a 1040 beer. Also better flocculation.

 

[manticle]

I agree with Ross, if the yeast is fresh why make a starter? I never have and have never lost a brew yet to infection, maybe i'm just lucky

Rook

If it's a low OG brew then sure I agree. If you've a tendency to worry about things not kicking off straight away it can it can just settle your mind. 1040 brew + fresh yeast I probably wouldn't bother though.

 

[warra48]

I had a similar but not identical experience last week.
Brewed a MILD Sunday afternoon 7 Feb. With the ambient temperature, couldn't get it lower than about 29C, so drained it to the fermenter taking care not to aerate it, sealed it, and placed it in the fridge.
Had planned to aerate it the next morning, and pitch the slurry from a 4 litre starter of a freshly smacked WY1968.
However, our grandson was born early Monday morning, so things got a bit confused.
As we were about to head off to Sydney, I realised I hadn't pitched the starter.
Anyway, I managed to quickly pour off the starter beer, add some preboiled cooled water, saved a couple of tubes of the yeast, and pitched the rest. Left it in the fridge at 18C. Didn't get to aerate it.
Came back from Sydney on Wednesday afternoon, and took a look at it. Looked like nothing was happening at all. Sanitised my spoon, and gave the brew a good stir to suspend the yeast and upped the temperature to 20C. Next morning it still looked like nothing had happened.
Decided to check the SG, and blow me down, it's down from OG 1.038 to SG 1.011. That's an apparent attenuation of 71% inside 3 days. Wyeast on their website state a range of 67 to 71%. WY1968 sure is a hungry beast. It also shows the benefit of pitching a large enough starter so as not to stress the yeast in having to multiply too much and work too hard.
I'll leave it in primary for at least 2 weeks, and will then bottle it.

 

[chillihilli]

You need to get that down to 18 for a better cleaner drop mate.

Thanks for that. Right now I'd be happy with 21.. It begs the question, is that temp (18) yeast-specific or a general rule? The packet suggested a ferment of 21-24 to start, then adjust temperature after that.

From what I read, this will help reduce the "banana" flavour. Would you agree with that?

Mine should drop down over the next couple of days to 21.

Bring on winter where all I have to do is warm it up! I have a 60L esky for that which I put two fish tank heaters in. As I just wrote that I realised that I simply need to do the opposite now for summer.

 

[BrenosBrews]

Thanks for that. Right now I'd be happy with 21.. It begs the question, is that temp (18) yeast-specific or a general rule? The packet suggested a ferment of 21-24 to start, then adjust temperature after that.

From what I read, this will help reduce the "banana" flavour. Would you agree with that?

Mine should drop down over the next couple of days to 21.

Bring on winter where all I have to do is warm it up! I have a 60L esky for that which I put two fish tank heaters in. As I just wrote that I realised that I simply need to do the opposite now for summer.

That 21-24 would be the temp the smack pack should be while doing it's thing.

The suggested range for 1056 is 15 to 22 so 18 is pretty much right in the middle. Higher temps will result in more esters, but you wouldn't get banana from 1056.

 

[losp]

sorry for derailing this thread but?
what is up with this yeast? it swells for no reason, smacked or not which can make it a bit tricky to find the thing to smack. I dont think any other wyeasts do this.

 

[chillihilli]

Just to finish this thread off (or to reopen it, depending on your view ) I bottled the Pale Ale and it is now about 2 weeks in the bottle. I tried one on the weekend just to see how it transferred. I must say I am very happy with this beer. I can definitely taste the malt which I suspect will back off a bit as it matures.. The hop aroma is delightful, and the citrusy hop flavour is mind blowing. It's exactly what I was hoping for from this beer, despite the issues with temp control in the wort and pitching a little a hot... and stressing out about the yeast. I've named it "Little Citra's" which is a hint at the style of beer I was aiming for.

I've now learned my lesson with temp control and the last brew wasn't anywhere near as stressful.