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Why do ALL of my can kits taste bad?

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Lionman

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TheWiggman said:
I think they're overall decent because as manticle suggested, the yeast lends a lot to the beers.
That's the one dimension.

Sparkling Ale is one of the most drinkable, widely available and affordable beers, though.
 

manticle

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Reports suggest the WL is similar but not identical to coopers bottle reculture.
Besides the massive number of variables comparing a pure commercial culture to an HB reculture, I offer you some second hand anecdotal evidence so take from it what you will.
 

TheWiggman

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I recall reading here that Coopers' yeast (that Coopers used) consisted of a few strains originally, a blend. Over the years they've narrowed it down and now use a single yeast strain for their commercial products. The Whitelabs ale yeast was one of the older blends and consists of 3 different yeasts.
 

peteru

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pcmfisher said:
Coopers Pale, BE2, Kit yeast @18 deg, and I have to say..............it tastes absolutely nothing like the original.
That's not really a surprise. It's not what is in the original. For starters, the yeast shipped with kits is not the same yeast as used for the commercial beer. If you want to clone, you'll have to culture a decent amount of the original yeast from the bottle. I also doubt that Coopers would bother throwing in dextrose and maltodextrin - it's very likely to be all malt.


pcmfisher said:
This time with 1.5kg Liquid malt and US05.
Definitely a good idea to go all malt, rather than the "enhancers". I use a can of Coopers light malt. Going with US05 will miss the mark, if you are trying to clone.
 

livewiremjk

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Wow. What an interesting topic.
I've never made an all grain beer. I've been using Coopers, etc LME cans (or what ever the recipe I'm using requires) with great results.
I've made some terrible beers. But I've made some really great ones. And plenty that I'm happy to share with others and watch their surprise when they taste good home brew..

I never use the coopers yeast. I always use a water filter. I always boil everything, even if it's just for a few mins, especially when I've steeped 500g of grains. I always make a yeast starter, and I usually let it ferment for 14 days, with a cold crash at the end. Sometimes I use Coopers BE2 but mostly I use DME, Dex & Powdered Corn Syrup from my LHBS. If the recipe calls for it, I'll boil hops too. I can get consistent results and pleasant beers using LME.

There's no way I'll be going all grain when I can get the type of results I'm getting. My brew day is usually about 2.5 hours and that includes set up and clean up.
I've tried fresh wort kits from All Inn Brewing in Brisbane, and yes, they are very nice, especially with a dry hop, but then again, those guys know what they're doing and I'd expect their product to taste great.

Brewing beer is less of a hobby to me than drinking beer, and I get that some people want to learn all they can about beer making. I know enough to keep my kegerator stocked with beer that tastes better than some of the "craft beers" I've tried from the bottle shop, and that's enough for me.

Can you make great tasting beer from a Kit? Absolutley.
 

peteru

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I've got a keg of Cooper's Inn Keeper's Daughter (DIY can version of Sparkling Ale), brewed with a 1.7kg can of Cooper's light malt extract and kit yeast that was stepped up to about a 1.5L starter. I was pretty happy with the result. I had a couple of days of not drinking beer (due to being a bit ill with the flu) and the first glass I had did not taste as good as I remembered from earlier in the week. I shrugged my shoulders and thought perhaps it's due to the first glass having some beer that has been sitting in the lines for a few days. I poured a second glass and noticed that it pours completely clear, instead of the classic Copper's "cloudy but fine" look. Again, I found that glass a little lacking when compared to the glasses I had previously.

I wonder what's going on there. Could be that my palate is affected by the flu. Or it could be that the lack of suspended yeast robs the beer of that essential character. I guess I'll give it a couple of days and pour a glass. Then shake the keg to agitate the yeast and pour another one for comparison.
 

Coldspace

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Done a heap of sparkling ale kits in previous years, temp control and nice starter of recultured yeast makes all the difference. Most turned out nicer than the commercial ones, more flavour
 

Grott

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livewiremjk said:
Can you make great tasting beer from a Kit? Absolutley.
Use the better ingredients such as liquid malts vs enhancers, Coopers International and Thomas Cooper ranges (as an example) rather than home brands etc, good temp control and a bit of maturing goes long way for a decent kit beer.
 

Brewsta

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i've always been plagued with the Extract Twang in all my kit brews that i have done. I have managed to lesson the taste by adding adjuncts & better brewing techniques but always noticeable. I have often thought the dreaded twang is to do with the "hopped" extract inside the tin & not so much the extract itself.

to add to a previous post by Ekul,


ekul said:
I think the main issue with kit beers is that you dont really get enough malt in the can and the amount of yeast is about half of what you would require. Plus kits always have tasted tinny to me.

I've tried quite a few of those MJ pouches recently from friends who have just started brewing and I have to say, i think its the can that is the main issue. You can still taste the weird bitterness you get with isohop in the MJ kits but it is greatly reduced. If you pump a MJ pouch up with some spec malts and a short hop boil you can make a very drinkable beer. Not as good as all grain but good nonetheless.
could there be some reaction (say from the acids in the hops or something) to the metal can or the coating inside the can??? After all it's in there for a while before we open it…who knows whats happening to those precious flavours. Even beer in a can tastes different from a stubby wouldn't you agree???

Our local HBS also sells hopped kits in bags not tins & i must say the extract twang in those is far less noticeable, i'm pretty sure it's still a hopped coopers malt they use, they just buy in bulk and decant.

If you dip your finger into a hopped tin no matter the brand as opposed to a un-hopped tin of liquid malt extract & taste it, i reckon you can pick the twang in the kit can right from the start or is it just me???

Since brewing only plain malt extracts, steeping a few grains, changing my yeast & improving my brewing technique, (all thanks to the knowledge sharing of everyone on this site) i no longer suffer from the dreaded ET's. But as soon as i get lazy & put down a K&K, WHAMO!!!…there it is back again like an unwanted case of Herpes.

Maybe water & bad brewing techniques as previously mentioned could accentuate the unwanted flavour? dunno? but my money is on the "hopped" extract in a tin & the older it is the worse it is.

Just a theory, i don't have a degree in food technology to back it up though!!! i'm just a busted arse home brewer wishing he had the time to go AG.
 

Darkflavour

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Always prefered using two un-hopped cans, wait for it, I used to know the lingo, LME?

Get boil happening, then ad hops at additions id want. More bitterness, longer boil, ad hops at start of boil, and of course your flavouring and aroma at whatever points ya fancy.
 

Aussie Mick

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jackgym said:
Since my comeback to home brewing I've put down about 14 brews, all with Cooper's kit and kilo.
The first 2 or 3 weren't that great,using the can and BE1 or BE2. After changing to light dry malt
instead of the BE and US-05 yeast things improved out of sight. Adding extra hops to your fancy
also improves the brew. If you want a really nice kit beer try the newer Cooper's Family Secret
with 1kg of LDM and US-05 yeast. No need to add anything else. You won't know you're drinking
home brew.
I will second this.

Sampled mine today after only 13 days bottled, and it is very good already.

Thanks for sharing jackgym
 

Barge

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Brewsta said:
i've always been plagued with the Extract Twang in all my kit brews that i have done. I have managed to lesson the taste by adding adjuncts & better brewing techniques but always noticeable. I have often thought the dreaded twang is to do with the "hopped" extract inside the tin & not so much the extract itself.

to add to a previous post by Ekul,



could there be some reaction (say from the acids in the hops or something) to the metal can or the coating inside the can??? After all it's in there for a while before we open it…who knows whats happening to those precious flavours. Even beer in a can tastes different from a stubby wouldn't you agree???

Our local HBS also sells hopped kits in bags not tins & i must say the extract twang in those is far less noticeable, i'm pretty sure it's still a hopped coopers malt they use, they just buy in bulk and decant.

If you dip your finger into a hopped tin no matter the brand as opposed to a un-hopped tin of liquid malt extract & taste it, i reckon you can pick the twang in the kit can right from the start or is it just me???

Since brewing only plain malt extracts, steeping a few grains, changing my yeast & improving my brewing technique, (all thanks to the knowledge sharing of everyone on this site) i no longer suffer from the dreaded ET's. But as soon as i get lazy & put down a K&K, WHAMO!!!…there it is back again like an unwanted case of Herpes.

Maybe water & bad brewing techniques as previously mentioned could accentuate the unwanted flavour? dunno? but my money is on the "hopped" extract in a tin & the older it is the worse it is.

Just a theory, i don't have a degree in food technology to back it up though!!! i'm just a busted arse home brewer wishing he had the time to go AG.
I used to think that hopped extract were responsible for the twang but now I'm not so sure.

I brew AG but supplement with kits/bits and the odd FWK. Over the years my technique has improved. Pitching adequate yeast, using good yeast, temp controlled fermentation, better sanitation, etc.

l think that these factors have been most responsible for eliminating twang. In particular, I think that using decent yeast (ie not kit yeast) and temp controlled fermentation will produce excellent beer regardless. I can now brew any method (kit, AG, etc) and produce beers that are indistinguishable.

I still think the age of the tin plays a part, however. Really old tins will show up in the taste. Also, I wouldn't go so far to say you could brew a CAP or a light lager with extract. The bigger malt and hops flavours in the ales I brew probably help. I'll have to brew a NG pils this summer and see how it goes.
 

pcmfisher

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Barge said:
I used to think that hopped extract were responsible for the twang but now I'm not so sure.

I brew AG but supplement with kits/bits and the odd FWK. Over the years my technique has improved. Pitching adequate yeast, using good yeast, temp controlled fermentation, better sanitation, etc.

l think that these factors have been most responsible for eliminating twang. In particular, I think that using decent yeast (ie not kit yeast) and temp controlled fermentation will produce excellent beer regardless. I can now brew any method (kit, AG, etc) and produce beers that are indistinguishable.

I still think the age of the tin plays a part, however. Really old tins will show up in the taste. Also, I wouldn't go so far to say you could brew a CAP or a light lager with extract. The bigger malt and hops flavours in the ales I brew probably help. I'll have to brew a NG pils this summer and see how it goes.
Why would you ever brew AG then?
 

ziggy459

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Hi Guys..

Well I hadn't done a Coopers Pale for years, but did 2 earlier this month and I have to say I could not tell the diff between that and at the pub.. only the cost.....

I brewed them both in plastic and than kegged.. I have attached 2 pic with my readings, and btw the fermenters I have been using are now around 10 years old and still good to go.

And just used the yeast as is no stuffing around....

Ashampoo_Snap_2016.11.08_11h29m21s_001_.png

Ashampoo_Snap_2016.11.08_11h29m46s_002_.png

rgds
Chris
 

megabyte

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Kit yeast and BE2 eh?

Did you bother rehydrating the yeast?
Temperature controlled at 22˚C?
 

tugger

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Does everyone have no problems with the taste of extract brews with out hopped extract.
I believe it's the breakdown of hops in the can giving that homebrew twang.
 

ziggy459

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Michael Burton said:
Kit yeast and BE2 eh?

Did you bother rehydrating the yeast?
Temperature controlled at 22˚C?
No I just used the yeast under the lid and just pitched it dry, used 1kg BE2 only no hops etc. I brewed those 2 in the kitchen were it was at that temp for over a week, have brewed in the fridge before but not these ones.

And that brew btw is just about gone good to the last drop.
 

Parks

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A quick read through this thread has me wondering about the "tinny taste" of kit brews. I wonder if it's excessive mineral content?

e.g., if I were to make a standard all grain batch, dehydrate it, then later re-hydrate it I would have doubled the mineral content of the beer from the water supply.
 

Barge

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pcmfisher said:
Why would you ever brew AG then?
I meant to address that in my post.

Brewing AG obviously gives me more control over the malt bill. Controlling the mash temp gives me further control over fermentability (and in the case of weizens, I can influence the flavour profile). It's also fun to do AG, even if it's time consuming.
 
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