Why do ALL of my can kits taste bad?

[gdupagne]

You won't be making a 150 Lashes clone then. The recipe uses 12g of Amarillo & 25g NS. Beautiful drop.

recipe?

 

[jackgym]

recipe?

I just used a kit recipe.
Tin of Coopers Aust. Pale Ale
1kg light dry malt
12g Amarillo hops steeped in boiled water
US-05 yeast
25g Nelson Sauvin dry hopped

 

[gdupagne]

How close is it?

 

[manticle]

Dunno. Been drinking corona.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

In Tasmania, that would nearly be classed as less that water....yes ?

 

[jackgym]

How close is it?

Close enough.

 

[LAGERFRENZY]

Dunno. Been drinking corona.

They say if you put a wedge of lime in it then people will mistake you for some famous fella called Johnny Depp.

 

[jackgym]

They say if you put a wedge of lime in it then people will mistake you for some famous fella called Johnny Depp.

Lmao!

 

[danestead]

Dunno. Been drinking corona.

I watched Megafactories on Corona yesterday on TV. They spit out 20,000,000 bottles per day. No wonder it tastes like water!

 

[jackgym]

I watched Megafactories on Corona yesterday on TV. They spit out 20,000,000 bottles per day. No wonder it tastes like water!

Mega-swill for the group-thinking Yuppies.

 

[Vini2ton]

Speaking of kits. I was in Dans today and saw coopers IPA and some other new fangled type kit priced at $22.95 or so. Have they got a no-twang guarantee or something. Craft kit? $22.95 can buy some nice grain.

 

[petesbrew]

For ***** n giggles, I bought a Coopers Real Ale kit today, ready to throw down tomorrow. First Knk beer in many years.
Just going to do something simple like:
Coopers Real Ale
1.2kg LDME
200g Crystal (steeped)
16g Goldings
16g Target
WLP013 London Ale Yeast.
Fill to 23L
OG=1042

Finally made this today, as it took a few days for the yeast to fire up. Recipe fixed.

Sitting in the cool garage. We'll see how this baby turns out. (if it tastes bad, I can always wash it down with a Corona).

 

[Toad]

For what's worth I found steeping some crystal and fermenting us05 at 18 to 20 made my brews go from home brew twang to better than Sunday morning dumplings

 

[peteru]

Somewhere between 500g to 1kg of steeped biscuit malt with a can of Coopers IPA and a can of Black Rock light malt is very drinkable. Make up to 25L and dry hop with a generous amount of Cascade.

 

[petesbrew]

Finally made this today, as it took a few days for the yeast to fire up. Recipe fixed.

Sitting in the cool garage. We'll see how this baby turns out. (if it tastes bad, I can always wash it down with a Corona).

Well my knk Real ale is about ready to bottle. The hydrometer samples are tasting very promising.
We'll see how they taste out of the bottle, but it's been a nice easy venture. It definitely doesn't taste bad.

 

[Lionman]

The issue with K&K brew is that most kits are very low IBU and have no late hops. There isn't anything to hide behind. This isn't really a bad thing but when you're essentially rehydrating wort you can't expect miracles. Crisp low IBU, low hop beers really benefit from quality ingredients and quality process. Any mistakes or issues will be very plain to see.

Pretty much all Coopers beers are really bland and one dimensional anyway so I can't imagine why you would want to replicate it at home. Coopers is a last resort beer for me, for when the only alternative is VB. Each to their own, though.

I have enjoyed some kit based brews either toucans or with an extra kg or 2 of extract (never dextrose) added and some late edition hops and dry hopping. You can push the IBU up pretty easily to the 40-70 range and create some pretty tasty APAs or IPAs. I enjoy pushing the OG up too, better value for money and high ABV commercial beers are REALLY expensive (thank you govmnt).

 

[pcmfisher]

Havent done one for a while, but always used BE2, fermed at about 18*c..ish

The Pale Ale kit really is very good if done properly, very close to the original

Have used kit yeast and re cultered

I have tasted beers made from kits and they where fantastic. Better than some AG beers ( mine included ) at swap meets

Nothing wrong with kit beers, and in saying that, most issues are caused after the tin has been opened

This thread has caused me to make one.

Coopers Pale, BE2, Kit yeast @18 deg, and I have to say..............it tastes absolutely nothing like the original. I am assuming you are serious here.
Some that I have given a try like it, but to me it tastes pretty average and the reason I don't do many kits.

I will try again though.
This time with 1.5kg Liquid malt and US05.

 

[manticle]

In my view, coopers yeast is the signature flavour of the commercial. Be interested to hear your results using properly recultured stuff.

 

[TheWiggman]

Pretty much all Coopers beers are really bland and one dimensional anyway so I can't imagine why you would want to replicate it at home.

Coopers Sparkling ale and Best Extra Stout are one-dimensional? Can't agree with you there, I find both to be very enjoyable beers.
Ed: noticed you said "pretty much", still I think they're overall decent because as manticle suggested, the yeast lends a lot to the beers.

 

[yankinoz]

In my view, coopers yeast is the signature flavour of the commercial. Be interested to hear your results using properly recultured stuff.

Also interested. I'd love to try the real Coopers yeast on an English bitter--sort of Coopers Mild with a dash of caramel and English hops--but have been too lazy to do the culturing. I recall a rumour somewhere that White Labs Australian Ale yeast is the Coopers strain. Any truth in it?

 

[Lionman]

I think they're overall decent because as manticle suggested, the yeast lends a lot to the beers.

That's the one dimension.

Sparkling Ale is one of the most drinkable, widely available and affordable beers, though.

 

[manticle]

Reports suggest the WL is similar but not identical to coopers bottle reculture.
Besides the massive number of variables comparing a pure commercial culture to an HB reculture, I offer you some second hand anecdotal evidence so take from it what you will.

 

[TheWiggman]

I recall reading here that Coopers' yeast (that Coopers used) consisted of a few strains originally, a blend. Over the years they've narrowed it down and now use a single yeast strain for their commercial products. The Whitelabs ale yeast was one of the older blends and consists of 3 different yeasts.

 

[peteru]

Coopers Pale, BE2, Kit yeast @18 deg, and I have to say..............it tastes absolutely nothing like the original.

That's not really a surprise. It's not what is in the original. For starters, the yeast shipped with kits is not the same yeast as used for the commercial beer. If you want to clone, you'll have to culture a decent amount of the original yeast from the bottle. I also doubt that Coopers would bother throwing in dextrose and maltodextrin - it's very likely to be all malt.

This time with 1.5kg Liquid malt and US05.

Definitely a good idea to go all malt, rather than the "enhancers". I use a can of Coopers light malt. Going with US05 will miss the mark, if you are trying to clone.

 

[livewiremjk]

Wow. What an interesting topic.
I've never made an all grain beer. I've been using Coopers, etc LME cans (or what ever the recipe I'm using requires) with great results.
I've made some terrible beers. But I've made some really great ones. And plenty that I'm happy to share with others and watch their surprise when they taste good home brew..

I never use the coopers yeast. I always use a water filter. I always boil everything, even if it's just for a few mins, especially when I've steeped 500g of grains. I always make a yeast starter, and I usually let it ferment for 14 days, with a cold crash at the end. Sometimes I use Coopers BE2 but mostly I use DME, Dex & Powdered Corn Syrup from my LHBS. If the recipe calls for it, I'll boil hops too. I can get consistent results and pleasant beers using LME.

There's no way I'll be going all grain when I can get the type of results I'm getting. My brew day is usually about 2.5 hours and that includes set up and clean up.
I've tried fresh wort kits from All Inn Brewing in Brisbane, and yes, they are very nice, especially with a dry hop, but then again, those guys know what they're doing and I'd expect their product to taste great.

Brewing beer is less of a hobby to me than drinking beer, and I get that some people want to learn all they can about beer making. I know enough to keep my kegerator stocked with beer that tastes better than some of the "craft beers" I've tried from the bottle shop, and that's enough for me.

Can you make great tasting beer from a Kit? Absolutley.

 

[peteru]

I've got a keg of Cooper's Inn Keeper's Daughter (DIY can version of Sparkling Ale), brewed with a 1.7kg can of Cooper's light malt extract and kit yeast that was stepped up to about a 1.5L starter. I was pretty happy with the result. I had a couple of days of not drinking beer (due to being a bit ill with the flu) and the first glass I had did not taste as good as I remembered from earlier in the week. I shrugged my shoulders and thought perhaps it's due to the first glass having some beer that has been sitting in the lines for a few days. I poured a second glass and noticed that it pours completely clear, instead of the classic Copper's "cloudy but fine" look. Again, I found that glass a little lacking when compared to the glasses I had previously.

I wonder what's going on there. Could be that my palate is affected by the flu. Or it could be that the lack of suspended yeast robs the beer of that essential character. I guess I'll give it a couple of days and pour a glass. Then shake the keg to agitate the yeast and pour another one for comparison.

 

[Coldspace]

Done a heap of sparkling ale kits in previous years, temp control and nice starter of recultured yeast makes all the difference. Most turned out nicer than the commercial ones, more flavour

 

[Grott]

Can you make great tasting beer from a Kit? Absolutley.

Use the better ingredients such as liquid malts vs enhancers, Coopers International and Thomas Cooper ranges (as an example) rather than home brands etc, good temp control and a bit of maturing goes long way for a decent kit beer.

 

[Coodgee]

That coopers real ale always tasted really cidery to me.

 

[Brewsta]

i've always been plagued with the Extract Twang in all my kit brews that i have done. I have managed to lesson the taste by adding adjuncts & better brewing techniques but always noticeable. I have often thought the dreaded twang is to do with the "hopped" extract inside the tin & not so much the extract itself.

to add to a previous post by Ekul,

I think the main issue with kit beers is that you dont really get enough malt in the can and the amount of yeast is about half of what you would require. Plus kits always have tasted tinny to me.

I've tried quite a few of those MJ pouches recently from friends who have just started brewing and I have to say, i think its the can that is the main issue. You can still taste the weird bitterness you get with isohop in the MJ kits but it is greatly reduced. If you pump a MJ pouch up with some spec malts and a short hop boil you can make a very drinkable beer. Not as good as all grain but good nonetheless.

could there be some reaction (say from the acids in the hops or something) to the metal can or the coating inside the can??? After all it's in there for a while before we open it…who knows whats happening to those precious flavours. Even beer in a can tastes different from a stubby wouldn't you agree???

Our local HBS also sells hopped kits in bags not tins & i must say the extract twang in those is far less noticeable, i'm pretty sure it's still a hopped coopers malt they use, they just buy in bulk and decant.

If you dip your finger into a hopped tin no matter the brand as opposed to a un-hopped tin of liquid malt extract & taste it, i reckon you can pick the twang in the kit can right from the start or is it just me???

Since brewing only plain malt extracts, steeping a few grains, changing my yeast & improving my brewing technique, (all thanks to the knowledge sharing of everyone on this site) i no longer suffer from the dreaded ET's. But as soon as i get lazy & put down a K&K, WHAMO!!!…there it is back again like an unwanted case of Herpes.

Maybe water & bad brewing techniques as previously mentioned could accentuate the unwanted flavour? dunno? but my money is on the "hopped" extract in a tin & the older it is the worse it is.

Just a theory, i don't have a degree in food technology to back it up though!!! i'm just a busted arse home brewer wishing he had the time to go AG.