Why do ALL of my can kits taste bad?

[megabyte]

Top get the chloramine click here http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/vitamin-c-for-chlorine-chloramine-removal.76953/

Interesting. I do have some campden tablets that I've never used, but Vitamin C sounds like to goods too. Couldn't hurt!

When I did coopers kits, use the can extract additive like the light malt or wheat malt, instead of the powdered BE2 etc. makes a difference in quality.

Thanks for the detailed info! I heard on BrewStrong once that the goo in kit beers is made not to attenuate well because they know you're going to make up the rest of the malt bill with simple sugars. From memory they said using malt will result in a high FG. This said, I will add this to my list of things to try because it may be those simple sugars that create that "homebrew" taste I hate, and having a slightly maltier beer is far less of a concern for me.
I'm really glad to hear that you're getting good results from the kit.

...I think its just the kit beer. Some people just have different palates.

In the back of my mind I am afraid of this too, but I hope that with all this new advice I can succeed in making the kits taste right. Coopers Pale Ale really isn't a complex style, so it *should* be possible.

 

[Coldspace]

Mine using coopers bottle yeast,1.5 ltr starter, airated wort really well, ie 1 min with a paint stirrer , always drops down to 1006 -1008 using extract can additives .

Give it ago again.

 

[louistoo]

Reading this with interest, put my first can brew down today since going extract with boil then all grain a year ago or so. Really hoping for a better result than I remember.
I did a steep of some nelson sauvin in a 10 liter 1.050 dme wort in the hope of some hop flav. and aroma.
Yep, really don't want the old shit kit taste again so heres hoping that and a pitch of rehydrated bry 97 may help!

edit; the black rock tin I used came with a whopping 5g of yeast. WTF!

 

[megabyte]

Reading this with interest, put my first can brew down today since going extract with boil then all grain a year ago or so. Really hoping for a better result than I remember.

Keep us posted, I'd love to hear from AG brewers who have gone back to kits and had better results than when they first started.

UPDATE: I went shopping this arvo. Dropped by ALDI and eyed off their 10L water jugs but I couldn't justify spending $12 for brew water. Not until I'm out of cheaper options.
We also passed by the chemist and I found the ascorbic acid packs. 120g for about $14. Again, glad to know it's there but I'll have a go with my campden tablets first since I've never used them.
I did pick up a Tin of Coopers Australian Pale Ale and a pack of BE2 from Woolies while I was out so I'm not a complete cheapskate

When I got home I boiled 25L of tap water with 1/4 of a campden tablet in my brew kettle for 5 minutes uncovered and racked to cube to cool overnight.
I also took 2 vials of Coopers bottle least that I saved from my last starter and added them to a 2L starter on a Yeast Forge at 24C. My vials are 65 days old so about 50% viability. They smelled fine and I know the beer I fermented with them last (my AG batch) turned out awesome so the yeast should be fine.

I hope to pitch in a day or 2 and we'll know if the unboiled tap water was to blame.

 

[Grott]

I don't use the enhancers with the Coopers but Coopers liquid malts and add my own maltodextrin. Tap water is filtered and in the main kit yeast used. Generally only brew from the International and Thomas Cooper ranges.
To be honest I find the results excellent and this is supported by family and friends. (unless they persistently like to drink crap).

 

[pcmfisher]

Havent done one for a while, but always used BE2, fermed at about 18*c..ish

The Pale Ale kit really is very good if done properly, very close to the original

Have used kit yeast and re cultered

I have tasted beers made from kits and they where fantastic. Better than some AG beers ( mine included ) at swap meets

Nothing wrong with kit beers, and in saying that, most issues are caused after the tin has been opened

I am assuming here that you are not joking, but maybe you should do one now to see if it really is as good as you remembered.

I am convinced that some people's tastes must be way less particular than others.

To me a Coopers Pale tin with a kg of BE2 tastes nothing like the real stuff, don't care how its brewed.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Each batch of Coopers Pale that I try always tastes slightly different be it in a keg or in a bottle

 

[pcmfisher]

Each batch of Coopers Pale that I try always tastes slightly different be it in a keg or in a bottle

But lets be honest here, they never taste like a tin and kg of BE2

 

[Coodgee]

I agree. Let's call a spade a spade here. It's not the water that makes a kit beer taste like shit. It's the contents of the can and the process of putting it in there.

 

[spartan2007]

Have been there .Only a newbie myself but changed my routine with my coopers brewing. I always boil my water night before i brew leave in fridge in containers with lid off to expell chlorine not great water in hervey bay. Dont use coopers enhancer i use morgans booster blend and their premium ale yeast with 10g of galaxy hopps in a tea steap for 15 minutes .Ferment at 18 c then cold crash at 2c then bottle .never had a bad batch doing this way which works for me .All my mates love it ,good luck

 

[pablo_h]

I've often though chlorine in the water is a big deal, after all we spend so much effort and time on yeast health it wouldn't be a good idea to dump yeast on unboiled tap water ala K+K brew style. (all my newbie attempts at such K+K brews failed years ago). Chlorine is added to water to kill microbes after all.
And it makes sense that AG brewing or even all extract (where boiling occurs for hopping) is not going to have that problem as all water is boiled.

I question what strength/effect chloramine has though. It seems it's so easily got rid of with tiny amounts of chemicals it may already be very weak in our water? Or sanatizer residue or something in the wort takes care of it in similar ways? IDK.
Most filters and boiling don't get rid of it so it's not a big difference between kits/extract or AG.

But thanks for the info stu about vit c. I might try that in the future side by side when I'm doing two identical brews. I've always been meaning to get campden tabs or something to deal with chloramines but always forget. I might have more chance remembering to get vit c somewhere on a regular shopping trip or something.

But for now, chlorine is a problem so at least let brewing water "gas off" overnight (or get a filter for it), and boil as much as you can in a partial, and really anything that yeast is going to be immediately subject to. E: Subject to after cooling that is

 

[Markbeer]

I think something has to be said for people's tastes.

Michael have you ever tasted a good can kit or extract brew? Let me rephrase that.

Have you ever tasted one where you couldn't taste the extract?

Some people don't seem to be able to taste extract and others pick it straight away. If your one to pick it straight away then there is little you can do.

I remember tasting the Garage Project Industrial IIPA. Even with all the hop extracts added all I could taste was malt extract like I just opened a can kit. Others couldn't detect it.

Maybe try boiling all your water, then if that doesn't work try and see if you can taste another's extract brew they feel is great.

I think out of the IBU club, only Eddie is the last extract brewer but he is converting. Bring a bottle and someone will know what's wrong next meet up.

Love your stir plates BTW.

 

[megabyte]

Michael have you ever tasted a good can kit or extract brew? Let me rephrase that.

Have you ever tasted one where you couldn't taste the extract?

I've never tasted a good kit+kilo yet, but I've never tried one that someone else has brewed.

I have brewed extract beers (with steeping grains) that tasted fine to me, and I still top up my big beers with LME or DME if my mash tun is too small and I have no problems with it. I've never noticed the offensive "homebrew" taste from anything but kit+kilo batches.

Maybe try boiling all your water, then if that doesn't work try and see if you can taste another's extract brew they feel is great.

I think out of the IBU club, only Eddie is the last extract brewer but he is converting. Bring a bottle and someone will know what's wrong next meet up.

Great suggestions. I've got a new batch of Coopers Australian Pale Ale + BE2 + Coopers Bottle yeast in the fermentor at 18C.
I've mixed it with pre-boiled water this time to rule that out as the main factor and I also brought the extract and BE2 up to a brief simmer before going into the fermenter just to be sure that everything is sanitary. I'll try bring a bottle along to stoutfest. I promise I won't be so mean as to enter them into the case swap! :lol:

 

[GibboQLD]

BE2 is 50% dextrose, which explains the thin/cidery taste -- wonder how BE3 would go? Given the high proportion of light DME in BE3, I'm pretty sure it was Coopers attempt at providing an adjunct that doesn't result in the "homebrew twang" that BE1/BE2 gives.

The only Coopers kit beers I've ever made that are missing that "twang" are the ones with little or no added dextrose, or with plenty of DME/spec grains to balance it out.

 

[Cloth Ears]

I haven't made anything other than K+K brews since I came back about 7 years ago. Prior to that I'd tried grain brewing in the 80s, but had never had consistently successful brews, so I gave it up and bought the amber fluid pre-brewed.
Then I noticed a Coopers kit for $99 in my local Coles (I think) and after watching Mercurio's video it produced the best brew I'd made (OK, memory may be a little hazy, but it was definitely drinkable - even in PET). I continued to experiment up to the point where, today, I brew 4 kit cans along with a whole bunch of other sugars and some spices, in a 60litre fermenter. I use only tap water (but I am in Melbourne) and I do a regular bleach to clean out the stuff before I use it. But the brews are so good I don't bother with grains except for flavouring and mouthfeel. And the rest of the family agrees, as I have to hide a dozen or so for consumption here at home.
I don't generally use any of the Coopers additives or malts. For powders, I go AHB and for liquids, I generally use Black Rock. And half the yeasts are Mangrove Jack, the rest are the K+K ones from Coopers - all dry pitched.

 

[manticle]

Any of the brewers who don't enjoy their own kits enjoy the flavour of brews by other kit brewers?

Would go a long way to working out if it's your palate/preference or your process/ingredients.

 

[megabyte]

BE2 is 50% dextrose, which explains the thin/cidery taste -- wonder how BE3 would go? Given the high proportion of light DME in BE3, I'm pretty sure it was Coopers attempt at providing an adjunct that doesn't result in the "homebrew twang" that BE1/BE2 gives.

The only Coopers kit beers I've ever made that are missing that "twang" are the ones with little or no added dextrose, or with plenty of DME/spec grains to balance it out.

2 very strong arguments for ditching the BE2. If the water doesn't help this batch I'll give DME a shot next time.

...I don't generally use any of the Coopers additives or malts. For powders, I go AHB and for liquids, I generally use Black Rock. And half the yeasts are Mangrove Jack, the rest are the K+K ones from Coopers - all dry pitched.

Another reason to ditch the BE2 then. Thanks for the advice on the possible alternatives.

 

[MastersBrewery]

Mike,
If this fails your next port of call will be taste bud transplant. .. and that sounds as painful as drinking tooheys new for the rest of your life

 

[damoninja]

I don't regularly brew kits, the last one I did was years ago and only because it was given to me.

Brewed up just great and people never knew it was a kit, in fact I've still got maybe a dozen stubbies lying about, popped one maybe 6 weeks ago and it's matured real nice.

 

[manticle]

Any of the brewers who don't enjoy their own kits enjoy the flavour of brews by other kit brewers?
Would go a long way to working out if it's your palate/preference or your process/ingredients.

I realise after reading that this question was asked and answered, at least from OP.

Pretty sure this is the crux though -unless you can point to a kk brew that tastes like you'd wish it to taste, you may be expecting too much.