Why are my brews so dark and stormy?

[tgilbert]

I've been brewing using kits and extracts for a few years now and I've made some excellent brews in that time, but just lately I've been really disappointed with every brew I make and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

The last three brews I've made (a Cooper's Pale Ale, a Morgan's Amber Ale and a Little Creatures extract have all turned out very dark and with a strong molasses or maybe hops undertaste. They are drinkable, but only barely.

The two ales I struggled with getting the yeast to fire up. The Coopers I had to heat up to 30 degrees before it fired up. The Morgans yeast seemed to fail completely and I had to dig through my box for another yeast to add in. It then fired up for one day (on the bench at 24 degrees) and pretended to be finished. The Little Creatures had no problems, but still came out similarly too dark and too hoppy. All three had final SGs that indicated 4-5% alcohol content.

I'm just not sure where to go from here.

I thoroughly wash my fermenters before and after each brew and I throw in teaspoon of Coopers powdered sanitiser and a litre of water to rinse out before I add my brew. I do the same with the kegs after brewing.

The only real difference in my brewing technique this year is that I'm not brewing in the fridge, which I was doing last year (12 or 18 degrees depending on the brew). My wife has taken over my temp controlled fridge for nefarious domestic purposes. But for my first year as a brewer I only brewed on the counter top so that should not be the cause.

Please, any ideas or suggestions would be most welcome.

 

[Grott]

I don't think the in the fridge or not is the issue. Prior to adding the yeast have you oxidised the wort and is there foam on the top or has the wort been just flat?
Cheers

 

[tgilbert]

I always oxidise the wort using a paddle in a battery drill (actually I do this more to make sure the wort and brew enhancer have mixed through thoroughly), so there is lots of foam on the top. I have taken to stirring in the yeast with a long plastic spoon instead of just distributing it on top of the foam. Could that be an issue?

I should also mention that I have recently bought a wort thermometer and I now only add my yeast when the thermometer says the wort is in the correct range for the yeast. This should be a good thing as before I relied on a temp sticker on the outside of the fermenter. But who knows???

 

[panzerd18]

I always oxidise the wort using a paddle in a battery drill (actually I do this more to make sure the wort and brew enhancer have mixed through thoroughly), so there is lots of foam on the top. I have taken to stirring in the yeast with a long plastic spoon instead of just distributing it on top of the foam. Could that be an issue?

I should also mention that I have recently bought a wort thermometer and I now only add my yeast when the thermometer says the wort is in the correct range for the yeast. This should be a good thing as before I relied on a temp sticker on the outside of the fermenter. But who knows???

Its always good to pitch the yeast as soon as possible. This allows the yeast to gain a good foothold, before any other nasties can in such a sugar rich environment.

 

[Grott]

Well there are two changes, 1) your waiting to add the yeast and 2) your stirring the yeast in. When I make my wort I control the temperature on the spot by either adding warm water or chilled water therefore adding the yeast straight away. I suggest you delete these changes for the present and see if things go back to normal.
Cheers

 

[CanMan]

I had a can sit past the used by date once. Thought I'd open it and have a go anyhow.( with new yeast ). What was supposed to be coopers lager looked more like an oil change from a Diesel engine.
Long shot considering its a few you've done but they're in date yeh?

 

[tgilbert]

I had a can sit past the used by date once. Thought I'd open it and have a go anyhow.( with new yeast ). What was supposed to be coopers lager looked more like an oil change from a Diesel engine.
Long shot considering its a few you've done but they're in date yeh?

Hmmm ... maybe! My daughter bought be a few cans at a closing down sale of a brew shop and to be honest I have not checked the dates on the last two cans I've used so they could well be out of date. Does the wort itself go off? Or just the yeast?

 

[tgilbert]

Well there are two changes, 1) your waiting to add the yeast and 2) your stirring the yeast in. When I make my wort I control the temperature on the spot by either adding warm water or chilled water therefore adding the yeast straight away. I suggest you delete these changes for the present and see if things go back to normal.
Cheers

I have often wondered how much risk there is in waiting to add the yeast. Does an un-yeasted wort go off pretty fast?

Similarly, I wonder about pulling the brew out of the fermenter too soon. I tend to err on the side of not leaving it after I think it's finished brewing, but I know others leave their brew for up to a couple of weeks after it stops bubbling before kegging it. I use a hydrometer to measure SG differences but I can't always read it accurately so sometimes I go on gut feel too.

 

[Grott]

Out of date tins can be questionable but usually tin stuff does last a while. But the yeast from those out of before date brews should not be used as they are definitely an unknown.

I religiously leave my brews in the fermenter for no less than 14 days and with basic kits don't bother to do a FG as I know it's done.

As stated don't' wait to put your yeast into the wort particularly if dry, yeast starters can be a different story but protection of the wort should be considered if leaving for any length of time.
Cheers

 

[jyo]

Malt extract goes dark as it ages, and this is increased when exposed to heat. Sounds like your possibly out of code tins are the reason for the dark colour and molasses flavour. While it's tempting to save a few bucks, if the extract is old and been stored in shit conditions, it's going to taste stale. If you are going to use old kits, grab some fresh yeast.

 

[Rocker1986]

Similarly, I wonder about pulling the brew out of the fermenter too soon. I tend to err on the side of not leaving it after I think it's finished brewing, but I know others leave their brew for up to a couple of weeks after it stops bubbling before kegging it. I use a hydrometer to measure SG differences but I can't always read it accurately so sometimes I go on gut feel too.

It actually is more beneficial to leave it in there for a few days to a week after it reaches FG. It gives the yeast time to clean up after themselves and remove off flavours that may have been produced during the fermentation itself. I wouldn't say this is necessarily part of why you're experiencing these off flavours, it does sound more like stale kits, but it will improve your beers going forward.

My ales actually get 3 weeks in the FV before bottling. A week or so to ferment, leave til day 14 for yeast cleanup, then crash chill it for a week before bottling. If they turn out shit, it's usually because of the recipe I made up. :lol:

 

[tgilbert]

OK, some really great advice there guys. Thank you! I think you've set me back on the right track. Brewing was getting really disappointing!!

Kelsey, I also used to rack my brew for a week in the cold fridge before kegging but I was never sure if that was a good thing to do or not. Also, I was never sure whether to take it off the yeast cake before racking it or just throw the fermenter in the fridge? I usually racked it into a cube and then put it in the fridge.

 

[Rocker1986]

I've never bothered racking brews except for bulk priming purposes. I just drop the fridge down and leave it in the primary until bottling day. I am of the opinion that racking to a secondary has no benefit in a normal fermentation -> packaging schedule; it's not necessarily detrimental unless an infection gets in during the process somehow, but it's not beneficial either so I can't see the point. It does have its place though, such as prolonged (months) conditioning before bottling or kegging, where it is a good idea to get it off the yeast cake.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

The temps you mention in the opening post are too high! outright. Ale = 18c. I'd think if it gets to 30c like mentioned then its fucked!

 

[Danscraftbeer]

How does it taste? that's the real question.

 

[Rocker1986]

Strong molasses taste was mentioned in the first post.

I'd agree that kicking off a brew at 30C is way too high. How long were they sitting there before the temp was raised? Yeast do have varying lag times depending on the strain. Old yeast may not take off at all; if fresher yeast was pitched it will still have a lag time, but it should get going without having to raise the temp that high, or at all really.

My pilsners have been taking around 36 hours to show any sign of activity. First batch was pitched at room temp and put straight in the fridge to come down, second was pitched pretty much at ferment temp of 10C; they both took around the same time to show signs of activity, but then chomped through and were both done in about 10 days.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Strong molasses taste was mentioned in the first post.

I'd agree that kicking off a brew at 30C is way too high. How long were they sitting there before the temp was raised? Yeast do have varying lag times depending on the strain. Old yeast may not take off at all; if fresher yeast was pitched it will still have a lag time, but it should get going without having to raise the temp that high, or at all really.

My pilsners have been taking around 36 hours to show any sign of activity. First batch was pitched at room temp and put straight in the fridge to come down, second was pitched pretty much at ferment temp of 10C; they both took around the same time to show signs of activity, but then chomped through and were both done in about 10 days.

I'm new to lager yeast but have found the same thing. Temp control ferment at ~ 12c Lager Yeast. It fermented out the same time as Ale yeast at 18c. 2 weeks primary no less.

 

[Rocker1986]

I do raise my lagesr up to about 18-19C for a D-rest when the gravity gets down to the low-mid 1020s (depending on OG). That probably finishes them off quicker too. Usually by day 14 they're ready for cold crashing for two weeks then bottling.

 

[CanMan]

all of the coopers can brews I've ever done have instructions under the lid. They all have said pitch yeast between 18 to 32 c. Not ideal of course but that's what their instructions say. Even on lager. I've pitched in summer around 30 plenty over the years with no ill effect.
In fact if you follow the instructions to a tee and start off with two litres of boiling water it's almost impossible to be down around mid to low 20s topping up with straight tap water.

 

[Rocker1986]

Pitching high is one thing, it's not ideal but if it's brought down quickly enough it shouldn't have any issues, I have done it a few times myself in the summer months with no-chill batches, but leaving it high until it actually shows signs of fermenting is rather another. However, that's more likely to result in a shitload of esters and fusel alcohols, than molasses type flavours.

Coopers kit instructions aren't the greatest. They're better than they were 15 years ago when I had my first stint at home brewing, but they're aimed at beginners, not those who know & follow better practices and have setups to allow this.

I wonder how many people have bought a kit, dumped a kilo of sugar in with it, fermented at 26 or 27 degrees, and then given up because the resultant beer tasted like shit? h34r: