Whirlpooling - How And When?

[peaky]

I asked a similar question not too long ago and was shown this great link here: http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Whirlpooling

The 'Whirlpooling After Wort Chilling' method shown here is exactly how I do it, and my results are also exactly the same. Almost zero trub and/or break material in my fermenter :icon_cheers:

 

[TidalPete]

Still to add my plate chiller to my HERMS so still using an immersion which chills the hot wort to the desired temp & is withdrawn before whirlpooling. Wort then sits for 20 minutes or so before being drained to the fermenter through a ss mesh filter & apparently crystal clear although some break must find it's way through the filter.
Whatever's left in the kettle is poured into a container & left to settle overnight before being poured into a 2\3litre juice bottle & frozen for use in future starters.

TP

 

[zoigl]

I use a 600 mm cooks whisk to whirl, I have tried paddles and spoons but the big whisk works best for me
I am still trying to work out whether to whirl hot or cold, but I think cold whirl should be better with my immersion chiller

 

[Dazza_devil]

I just did my first whirlpool today and lost 3 litres to kettle trub after siphoning from the kettle to fermenter. Things didn't settle out very well at all and I will need to revise this part of the equation as a high priority. I whirpooled after flameout and then put my pot in the bath to cool. I think it needed to sit for longer and should of had some whirfloc in there perhaps.

 

[sinkas]

SO I tried to whirpool on the weekend,
through a 1/2 incopper tube bent, via a CFC convoluted chiller, adn march pump., could not get enough speed up to do much at all, definitely not a whirlpool

 

[Silo Ted]

I dont have much luck with whirlpooling , does the addition of whirfloc make a big impact - loose leaf irish moss is what I use and even if I hydrate it first it makeslittle difference. Im not leaving it for very long though so that could be a tip

With no chill though, isnt the whole effectiveness based on heat sterilisation? To leave wort for too long after flameout then becomes a tradeoff to the NC cube process.

 

[crozdog]

I'm a no chiller. With my setup I leave the kettle for a while to let the convection currents settle down (takes about 15 mins as my burner is in a cast base which holds a bit of heat), then use my old trusty coopers spoon to give a good stir around the edge to get the whole wort moving. Wait 5-10 mins for movement to stop, then drain to cubes.

Due to the height of the outlet I have to tilt the kettle a bit at the end to get the last of the wort out & do get a little bit of break / trub but try & avoid getting too much due to the issue previously mentioned. When I use a cube I always tip the whole cube into the fermenter break & all.

Works for me

 

[manticle]

I dont have much luck with whirlpooling , does the addition of whirfloc make a big impact - loose leaf irish moss is what I use and even if I hydrate it first it makeslittle difference. Im not leaving it for very long though so that could be a tip

With no chill though, isnt the whole effectiveness based on heat sterilisation? To leave wort for too long after flameout then becomes a tradeoff to the NC cube process.

That amount of wort (presuming you are cubing at least 20 L) takes a fair while to drop heat and it's only when it gets to the high 60s that you need to be concerned (that and the amount of time it spends between high single digits and high 60s). I leave mine 10 minutes after flameout for the convection currents to settle, then check. If the currents are vastly reduced/stopped I then whirlpool for as long as I can stand (hand held spoon, naked arm, hot wort and steam). I then leave it 10 minutes and check it - if there's still a fair amount of break material floating around I leave another 10. That's possibly 30 minutes after flameout that my wort is left and I guarantee that stuff would leave a nasty scar on your arm if you spilt it on yourself. Next time I brew I'll measure the temperature at each point but to answer your question - your problem is probably the amount of time you leave the thing for before NC and if you try leaving it longer, I bet you get a better result (presuming of course that your whirlpool is effective.

Most effective WP method I've done (posted about this somewhere from memory) was shown to me by Fents. You need to create an actual whirlpool (not just a gentle swirl). You are trying to bring all the crud into the centre so that it actually drops into the centre away from the tap thread. For me this means stirring in a circular motion then increasing the speed and decreasing the diameter until you have a genuine whirlpool that would drown superman. You will aerate a little but try and splash as little as possible to reduce that.

At the end of draining you will see a nice, centrally placed lot of proteinaceous crap mixed with hop debris. This you can drain into a container, cover and refrigerate. More crap will drop to the bottom and you can use this for your starter. I always boil and chill it again first though.

 

[Cocko]

Yep, as Manticle says, you wanna get that bitch really whirlpooling! Like a cyclone in the centre.... Fents told me how to do it too, not shown, but I remember him saying "It should take 10-15 minutes to stop spinning" [Thats in a 120L kettle]....

After a good whirlpool and cubing:

 

[manticle]

That's the stuff.

So easy to get all but the last few hundred mL of clear wort before the trub even thinks of intruding and that's with my kettle on a slight angle.

 

[Silo Ted]

Cheers Manticle. You raise a good point about the temperature, and essentially over half an hour a volume of 27 litres in my kettle should only drop by about 2 degrees. What I find is that without whirlpooning, the wort goes into a cube, then when transferred most of the material stays behind . Problem is, enough gets through to the fermenter, so by the time the yeast trub is formed as well, the crap at the bottom extends beyond the tap outlet, which of course makes it into the beer as more stuff to settle out. Quite surprisingly though, with no whirlpooling, often forgotten irish moss, and no fining, some beers are still nice and clear, as long as they are not disturbed while conditioning, and kept in the fridge a day prior to opening. Lees crap in the final bottles would be good though, and i will use these tips next time I brew, also get some whirlfloc tablets to try them out.
Cocko, that photo is amazing, the clarity of the ring of wort around the edge is unlike anything you wouold see in my kettle

 

[ekul]

The two things that have made my whirlpooling work have been using less whirfloc (1/4 tab per batch max) and flowers in the boil. I don't know how using less whirfloc works but thats what i was told and it really does work. I used to lose 5-6 litres to break and now i don't lose any.

Using some flowers in the boil holds the break together and helps form the 'cone' that people talk about. The last 3 brews i've been able to get every last drop of wort out whilst getting very little hot break into the fermenter.

 

[Dazza_devil]

Only done it once so far, I got the **** in the middle like Cocko but it migrated toward my siphon inlet as I siphoned from the edge of the kettle. I didn't use any whirfloc and just gave the wort a good spinning before cooling the kettle in the bath. Even after transportation of the kettle, the **** still remained mostly central but perhaps could of been a bit tighter and deeper.
I lost 3 litres to trub and will be using an inlet strainer of some description next time.