Which yeast?

[axematt]

Gday all.

I am about to brew my first larger (Pilsner) and I have a couple of packs of S-05 on hand and was wondering if that would be suitable or should I use a S-23 that I can get from my LBS. It's for a 23L Kit brew with a caramel Pilsner malted grain steep. I have a ripper of a chest freezer with controller that keeps things super constant so low temp not a problem.

One more thing, I'm having trouble finding how much grain to use for this size brew and how much water to steep in.

Any help will be much appreciated. (sorry for any noob questions but just starting out)

 

[Naboo]

You could use the 05 but it wouldn't be a lager.

If you can hold the cooler temp to ferment, which you can, you can use a true lager yeast. I can't offer any advice on the actual yeast choice though - sorry.

Here's a thread about using US05 as a faux lager yeast.

https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/us05-for-a-lager.96382/

 

[altone]

I use Wyeast 2278 Czech pils yeast for pilsners , but yes the s23 will give you a much better result than US05 at the correct temp of course.

(This from a guy who is currently fermenting an American Pale with s04 English ale yeast because he ran out of Bry97 )

 

[axematt]

Thanks fellas, much appreciated

What about the grain water thingy I mentioned, any ideas?

 

[altone]

Thanks fellas, much appreciated

What about the grain water thingy I mentioned, any ideas?

Well if it's a kit are there no instructions? I'd need to see your whole recipe to get an idea of grain quantity etc.
But as a rule (my rule - could be wrong) for specialty grains steep for 30 mins at 70C

 

[axematt]

Good point altone.

I’ve never attempted this type of brewing yet so this is all I have in my head at the moment...which ain’t much I gotta say.

1.7kg black rock blonde Pilsner can
Steep some caramel Pilsner malt grain, dunno how much.
1kg of fermentables, LME, dextrose
A hop bag dunno what type
W34/70 yeast
20Lt

As you can see it’s more of a shoot of an idea rather than a full grown plan .

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Quite a few options of brewing software now. Excellent way to design recipes that are recorded. Try them free first and buy one. Well worth the money to help you hit the target your looking for. I still work on Beersmith II. You could just go kit and kilo of malt or dextrose will still make a perfectly good beer. Skip the grains. Partial mash is interesting but remember pilsner grain malts need long boiling to get past DMS. 90 minutes being good choice for allgrain maybe skip them altogether.
W34/70 Good choice of yeast. 2 packs. Temp control ferment starting low ~11c and finish ferment at ~14c.

 

[yankinoz]

US-05 was selected as a faux lager strain. Before it was in Chico, CA, it was obtained from the bankrupt Narragansett (RI) brewery. That brewery bought up the rights to Ballantine products and their yeasts when Ballantine (Newark, NJ) went out of business.

According to a posting by East Coast Yeast, Ballantine used the strain to brew "Ballantine beer," and at that time in US usage "beer" was lager. A dfferent yeast was used to brew Ballantine Ale and Ballantine IPA; East Coast has that one and sells it as Old Newark.ale yeast.

 

[Crimson Cadaver]

I'm a fan of SafLager 34/70 always super clean and finishes really clear.

 

[axematt]

Thanks again for all the replies. Danscraftbeer, you mentioned 2 packs of 34/70, is that for a 20Lt brew?

 

[altone]

Thanks again for all the replies. Danscraftbeer, you mentioned 2 packs of 34/70, is that for a 20Lt brew?

Yes 34/70 does a great job too - 2 packs as lagers need a larger pitch than ales.
I thought you meant steeping specialty grains like Cara Munich or Crystal not a partial mash -
Minimum for pilsner malt I'd do is 75 mins but the 90 mins Dans suggested is the safe option.
But don't even bother unless it's something you want to try.

 

[altone]

US-05 was selected as a faux lager strain. Before it was in Chico, CA, it was obtained from the bankrupt Narragansett (RI) brewery. That brewery bought up the rights to Ballantine products and their yeasts when Ballantine (Newark, NJ) went out of business.

According to a posting by East Coast Yeast, Ballantine used the strain to brew "Ballantine beer," and at that time in US usage "beer" was lager. A dfferent yeast was used to brew Ballantine Ale and Ballantine IPA; East Coast has that one and sells it as Old Newark.ale yeast.

Nice info there, and I'm sure US05 would produce a decent beer - but better to use a real lager yeast at low temp than make a faux lager.
Especially starting out so that you know that "odd taste" isn't a product of using a different yeast but rather your ingredients or technique.

btw Axematt what hops were you thinking? Hallartau or Tettnanger come to mind for pilsner or even Saaz for a bohemian lager - they'll all make a nice beer.

Dammit brain not working - Saaz for a real Czech pilsner the others for german pils or lager I think - need coffee!

 

[axematt]

Gday altone.

Your first thought was right, and I probably wasn't very clear in my posts. I am doing a Kit and Kilo style lager and was going to steep some cara munich (about 150g) just for extra flavour and colour. I'm not sure which hops but I'm leaning towards saaz but am absolutely open to suggestions. Also I'm not sure of my kilo ratio yet either, was thinking 600 LME, 400 dex. Again, any further advice really appreciated.

..Sorry if this has muted into a recipe style thread, not my original intention.

and I agree, nice info on the yeast background there yankinoz!

Cheers all.

 

[altone]

Gday altone.

Your first thought was right, and I probably wasn't very clear in my posts. I am doing a Kit and Kilo style lager and was going to steep some cara munich (about 150g) just for extra flavour and colour. I'm not sure which hops but I'm leaning towards saaz but am absolutely open to suggestions. Also I'm not sure of my kilo ratio yet either, was thinking 600 LME, 400 dex. Again, any further advice really appreciated.

..Sorry if this has muted into a recipe style thread, not my original intention.

and I agree, nice info on the yeast background there yankinoz!

Cheers all.

Sounds good mate - if you like Pilsner Urquell - go the Saaz if you prefer German pilsner I'd go Hallartau.

And do the steep it's worth the effort.

As for sugars, if you want the right colour what you proposed sounds ok but if you want flavour - all LME
Either way it's gonna be good if you keep everything sanitary.

Best advice? Brew it and see what you'd like to change next time. Take notes. Use brewing software [I use Beersmith - think you can get a free 30 day trial]
LOL best few bucks you spend will be that software though.

 

[axematt]

Thanks mate.

Yep, got a little brew book I am using so I don't forget anything..mistakes mainly but I'll look into that software and bust into the 21st century.
One more thing, would 2 litres be enough/too much water for steeping? and whats your thoughts on cold steeping?...technically that's two things I guess.

Cheers

 

[altone]

Thanks mate.

Yep, got a little brew book I am using so I don't forget anything..mistakes mainly but I'll look into that software and bust into the 21st century.
One more thing, would 2 litres be enough/too much water for steeping? and whats your thoughts on cold steeping?...technically that's two things I guess.

Cheers

Not sure on the technicalities as I've been all grain for a while but in the past I'd steep in 4 or 5l of water.
Cold steeping? is that even possible? In other words - don't do it

EDIT: Actually keeping a record of your mistakes is a great idea - do em once - not over and over.

 

[axematt]

Ha! fair enough, I'll give cold steeping a miss then. I just put the info in IanH's beer designer and it looks a little low on the ABV side of things. I was hoping to get it up to 6%. Should I put in two cans of goop or double the kilo stuff...or just deal with the low ABV. Sorry for all the questions.

 

[altone]

Ha! fair enough, I'll give cold steeping a miss then. I just put the info in IanH's beer designer and it looks a little low on the ABV side of things. I was hoping to get it up to 6%. Should I put in two cans of goop or double the kilo stuff...or just deal with the low ABV. Sorry for all the questions.

I guess easiest way to boost the ABV is add a bit more DME - I'm always striving for tasty beers under 5%

 

[axematt]

I agree, I have a couple of ales in the kegs at the moment around 4.5 which are really nice session beers but was looking for a bit of an *** kicker for the collection. Might just try a different style after this one and see what I can conjure up.
Thanks for all your advice mate, really appreciated.

 

[Naboo]

I have cold steeped dark grains a number times. No problems. Has worked well.