Where Can I Get My Beer Lab Tested?

[eamonnfoley]

I've been having a persistent problem since Xmas, unable to produce a drinkable brew (10 batches since xmas). Tried everything, replaced everything, water, ph, hoses, fermenters, ball valves, chillers, no chill, taps, kegs, sanitisers, recipes, etc, etc, etc. Comes out with a phenolic flavour, stale, mouth coating bitterness every damn time. Had experienced guys over to brew with me, they said it will be fine, again same problem. Spent far too much money and far too much time to quit. Must be the unluckiest brewer in Australia - its incredibly depressing. Every time I eliminate a variable I get excited only to be disappointed a week or so later.

Is there a lab somewhere in Perth that analyse my beer and tell me what compounds are in it? If some metal shows up, or a chemical of some description, I might have a better chance at solving my problem before it drives me to quit the hobby.

Thanks in advance.

 

[t2000kw]

Are you using municipal water? If your water used to be treated with chlorine, but the water authority switched over to useing the more persistent chloramine, you can't just boil it off. Chloramine is a chlorine/ammonia compound.

Have you tried bottled water?

If this is the problem, you should be able to filter it out with a simple under-the-sink charcoal filter, or even the type that attaches to the faucet.

I think there are other possible causes for the problem you have, so we'll see what others might suggest.

 

[eamonnfoley]

Are you using municipal water? If your water used to be treated with chlorine, but the water authority switched over to useing the more persistent chloramine, you can't just boil it off. Chloramine is a chlorine/ammonia compound.

Have you tried bottled water?

If this is the problem, you should be able to filter it out with a simple under-the-sink charcoal filter, or even the type that attaches to the faucet.

I think there are other possible causes for the problem you have, so we'll see what others might suggest.

t2000kw, Yep - used charcoal filtering, sodium met, water from a different brewer, acid malt, the works!

I'd rather not go through the obvious things (no offence to anyone :icon_chickcheers: ), its just I've been through all them.

THe only thing still playing on my mind is the brass nuts on the hopscreen inside my brewpot. THey are a little corroded, so ive replaced them for tomorrows brew.


Cheers

 

[Goose]

Hey Foles,

Been following your woes and I don't envy you but admire your persistence

Did you take up Gryphon's offer to diagnose and put under the microscope ? If you did I missed a post somewhere... just curious as to his feedback

Goose

 

[gibbocore]

Hey mate, have you tried just brewing a kit straight into a new bunnings fermenter with purified water?

 

[Supra-Jim]

http://www.costanzobrewing.com/BeerAnalyses.htm

Don't know if this will help you, but Vince does some analysis of brews. Prices are listed to.

Cheers SJ

 

[eamonnfoley]

Hey mate, have you tried just brewing a kit straight into a new bunnings fermenter with purified water?

tried it once with a glass carboy a while, but with tap water. I suspect with that batch that chlorine/chloramines were to blame.

This is all very embarrassing

does anybody think that nickel from a nickel plated brass nut can taint boiling wort, if it has corroded a little?

 

[eamonnfoley]

Hey Foles,

Been following your woes and I don't envy you but admire your persistence

Did you take up Gryphon's offer to diagnose and put under the microscope ? If you did I missed a post somewhere... just curious as to his feedback

Goose

Goose, PM'd you about this, but yeh Nev has been great helping me try to solve this problem. Nothing turned up under the scope.

 

[eamonnfoley]

http://www.costanzobrewing.com/BeerAnalyses.htm

Don't know if this will help you, but Vince does some analysis of brews. Prices are listed to.

Cheers SJ

Thanks I'll look into this.

 

[Supra-Jim]

A quick google on nickel contamination found this about drinking water in the UK:

Additional tests were undertaken using hard Water X with eight models of kettle with exposed heating elements; six of these had nickel-plated elements and the other two had non-plated stainless steel elements. The kettles with nickel-plated elements leached substantial quantities of nickel. These tests were run over a four-week period, over which time the nickel levels gradually fell. At the start of the test, with new filter cartridges, leaching of nickel was higher with jug-filtered water than untreated Water X. As the jug filters became exhausted the nickel concentrations fell to levels at or below those of untreated Water X. The increased leaching observed with new filter cartridges was associated with the reduced pH and alkalinity of the water. Nickel did not leach from kettles with stainless steel elements. A small-scale survey of households also showed nickel leaching from certain kettles, higher nickel levels being associated with boiling water filtered through new filter cartridges.

From here: http://www.dwi.gov.uk/consumer/pr0302es.htm

Though it doesn't give any description of the flavour nickel contamination minght impact. Though at the risk of stating the obvious, i would have though nickel would have imparted a metallic taste into the water/beer.

This summary report from the WHO, gives some idea of the toxicology of nickel contamination

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health...umstatement.pdf

So if those components are losing the nickel coating, ditch em!

Cheers SJ

 

[joecast]

nothing to be embarrassed about. we all dread having the sort of problems you're going through. hope you sort it out soon and get back to us with what you have gone through to find the problem. good luck.
joe

 

[bigholty]

Reminds me of that quote from the movie 'Crackerjack' - "Homebrew my arse, get that shit down to Forensics!"
(Sorry, not meaning to make light of the situation. Good luck finding the culprit.)

 

[Renegade]

I have looked a lot into sanitisation regarding another hobby, and it is stated that if you consistently get bacterial infections or unwanted free-roaming organisms that you just cant eliminate through equipment sanitising, you need to look at your whole work area. In this case your brewshed, spare room, garage. Scrub the walls down with a mix of metho and water (there is a ratio for eliminating bacteria, but I forget it), also the floors, windows, etc. Then do it again with napisan, then spray a disinfectant in the air every day for a few days and isolate the room.

Likely the same may be required for your situation, to truly eliminate the risks. A lot of 'nasty stuff' can hang around on the walls.

 

[benno1973]

My sister in law works for a company that does water analysis. Possibly they analyse other liquids. I could ask her if they do beer analysis if you'd like, and what their prices might be?

 

[t2000kw]

If your off-flavor had some sourness to it, I would have suggested that it might be a lactobacillus infection. Even if it's not that, the chances of airborne bacteria getting into your beer are greater during the summer months, especially if you brew outdoors.

But if you think it might be a bacterial infection, lysozyme might be worth a try. It damages bacteria cell walls (preventing their growth and spread) without affecting the yeast. (You wouldn't want to use it for that reason in some styles that need bacteria like certain Belgian styles.) I don't know if it's limited to bacillus bacteria or not.

Some brewers use it as a precaution. It does add some cost to your brew, though. If the cause is from something else, it would not be of any help. But you could use it to help rule out certain reasons for your problem.

 

[PostModern]

Comes out with a phenolic flavour, stale, mouth coating bitterness every damn time.

I had a similar issue once, tasted a touch like almond skins. Scotty (///) suggested it could be a wild yeast or a mutant taken residence in my fermenters. I'd replaced taps and everything. Ended up retiring one fermenter and gave the others new taps and a bath of boiling caustic soda. Problem ended.

To prove it's not in your fermenters, make a kit beer or a fresh wort and see if the flavour is still there.

 

[crells]

Someone I knew had an issue with airborne bacteria. It was eminating from a drain in the brewery. Took them a long time to find the problem. The beer would seem ok just fermented, then a week or 2 later would turn.

Good luck.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Ray Mills was having infection troubles and ended up tracing it back to a tree in his back yard

Got rid of the tree and all was fine

Cheers

 

[brettprevans]

Someone I knew had an issue with airborne bacteria. It was eminating from a drain in the brewery. Took them a long time to find the problem. The beer would seem ok just fermented, then a week or 2 later would turn.

Good luck.

it wasnt CUB for the last 30 years was it? :lol:

sorry foles. id give the new fermentor a try. cheapest experiment. and if its isnt the fermentor then at least youve got a spare out of it. maybe a water analysis company might be able to help.

heres the google result.
hotfrog listing here

good luck

 

[The King of Spain]

How do you locate a tree/drain as the source? Reading this thread with interest, I have had a similar experience.