Whaddyareckon?

[uniiqueuser]

Hi all, I am about to do my first brew which is'nt just K&K. I went to the LHB and got myself four packets of Saflager S23 (11.5 gms each) and two packets of Pride of Ringwood bittering hops pellets (25 gms each). This to go into a 200 litre fermenter with 8 cans of Cascade Golden Harvest Lager and 9 kg (perhaps a bit more) of sugar.

I have asked the question in the past about Cascade kits and it seems unaminous that the kit yeast is crap so I think I am on the right track here.

The bittering hops- my K&K lagers always seen to be a bit 'sweet' so I am trying to add a bit more 'bite'.

Based on these ratios can anyone predict if I should need more or less of the S23 or the hops? Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

And if you really really really twist my arm I might even go buy some dextrose...

 

[petesbrew]

I'll warn you in advance, be prepared to be ridiculed by some of the clowns here!

 

[brettprevans]

i will try to be kind.

you dont think that 200L for your first batch is a bit ambitious?

why 4 packs of yeast? at 1 packet per 30-45L you would need 6 packets. now as a lager you probably want double. so thats 12. im assuming you arent making a starter.

50g of hops would be ok for 60L. your looking at more like 150g. and thats pure bittering.

8 kits in 200L makes about a 2.5% beer. the 9kg of sugar will bump it up into the ball park. but generally sugars are kept at below 10% total fermentables. youve got it as about 60%. thats going to make some awful beer.

with 22 posts under your belt i would think that you've been on the forum long enough to know that what your proposing isnt going to be well recieved as it wont give a great result. however if this is the type of beer your wanting to brew then dont let anyone stop you. brew what you like to drink.

edit: just re-read about it being your first nont just K&K. hate to break it to you. your still doing K&K.

 

[.DJ.]

interested to know how you will keep 200l of wort at 8-12 degrees!!! Cool room?

 

[Dave86]

My two main concerns would be that one: i wouldn't use that much sugar (personal preference, if this is a ratio you have used in the past, by all means do it) to me, that would be a bit thin/cidery with that much sugar.

If you are planning on using the saf yeast as a lager yeast, you will need a lot more than that for 200L. I've got no idea on what flavours that yeast will throw if fermented warm, but for a lager brew of 200L I would be looking at using about 15-16 packets of yeast. (with those ingredients, according to mr malty pitching calculator!)

Good luck with the brew!

 

[.DJ.]

And if you really really really twist my arm I might even go buy some dextrose...

I missed this originally!!!

GOLD!!

 

[Katherine]

were was he on the biggest brew day

 

[petesbrew]

Yeah I'll bite.

A 23L brew is a nice sized batch to keep anyone happy for a while. And if it gets infected or just tastes crap, it's only a batch.
You're making 8-9 batches worth. Of a recipe you've never tried before. That's a pretty big gamble.
Feel free to go ahead and call me a stinge, but I'm on a budget with my brewing.

Recipe-wise, I haven't tried Pride of Ringwood, so I really can't say. I'd say you're just going to throw it in with the kits? I'd keep it for future use, and get something a bit more lager suited, like Saaz. Have a look on here for some hop comparison charts.

Sugar... how about we twist your arm even further and tempt you to buy some dried or liquid Malt extract. If you're buying that much, you should be able to get a bulk rate a bit cheaper.

Yeast wise, not too sure how much is enough... maybe throw in a few kit yeasts (flame suit on).

Have you met up with any other brewers here? Look for a brew club and your taste buds will thank you.
Above all, Good luck!
Pete

 

[bum]

To make something remotely drinkable I'd reckon you'd need to use a few tins of LME (not your only option, just suggested to fit in with the easy theme you're going with) - I'd be aiming, roughly, at about the same number of kit tins you're using. Bugger that sugar off (at least go half LME/half sugar if you must). I would double your yeast (at a minimum - preferring the 10 to 12 suggested by others already). Increase your hopping in a really big way - you'd have to have a pretty well trained palate to pick out that amount of hops in 200lts, IMO.

The question has already been asked but how do you plan to keep such a large volume at lager temps?

 

[chappo1970]

+1 CM2

I'm gunna leave the entire Golden Harvest thing alone :icon_vomit: ... horses and course isn't it? Anyway...

12 packets of S23 yeast for a lager at least for that volume even more maybe. Find Mr Malty's website for the right pitching rate.

Also to get any bittering effect what-so-frigging-ever you will need to boil those hops in a 1.040 grav wort for 60mins at least and then cool it to pitching temp. Might be best to see if you can get your hands on some Isohops from CraftBrewers considering you only want bittering and no flavour or aroma. Which brings up...

Before you go and produce 200lt of Beer, can I ask how you are going to maintain fermentation temps of between 10-12C? FFS I imagine 200lt of bubbling gurling ferment ain't easy to control (only from what I have heard I am not a Commercial Brewer or have that experience). Even with a cold room the yeast activity will push the ferment temp upwards so you need to think how you're going to measure it and then how your going to control it, temp wise. No use in having 200lt of Cascade cider now, huh?

After you have fermented the beer how are you going to store it? Bottles or Kegs or both?

It's not for me to pour cold water on your idea. In fact if you have the space and the ability to do it I say go for it! Why not? No use in dying wondering right?

Let us know how you go...

Cheers

Chappo

Edit: I go with all and above!

BUT unless you like diacetyl butterscotch lollies in your beer you need to work out the temperature control. S23 will throw it by the bucket load if it's not keep within temp range.

 

[Fents]

200L's of KnK......yummy! :lol:

 

[Katherine]

200L's of KnK......yummy! :lol:

Do you think a heat belt will fit around it!?

 

[marlow_coates]

Whaddyareckon?

I reckon you should go to the articles section and have a long read.
The wealth of info there will answer all your questions, build on your growing knowledge, and hopefully make you re-think this massive brew a little to improve your chances of making something you will enjoy drinking.

If you want to brew to the volume of 200L, I would suggest getting a recipe down pat, prior to upscaling size.

Best of luck

Marlow

 

[chappo1970]

Whaddyareckon?

I reckon you should go to the articles section and have a long read.
The wealth of info there will answer all your questions, build on your growing knowledge, and hopefully make you re-think this massive brew a little to improve your chances of making something you will enjoy drinking.

Damn it Marlow don't put him off.

I really wanna see one of these guys do it just for once. All the rest have chickened out (p1ss weak I say!) but I reckon this blokes got the knuts to do it. What was it a few weeks ago some dude wanted to make 500lt extract in a water tank? Did he go ahead? NO! Chickened out!

I say live a little and let them roam free brewing massive amounts of undrinkable cidery beer in garbage cans, dumpsters, fish tanks, oil barrels, and or whatever but they must do it in.

I just wanna see one of the nut jobs actually do it! What's wrong with that?

Cheers

Chappo

 

[marlow_coates]

Chappo, I think the thread was called '800L brew', or something like that. But I think the more he heard replies, the more he got put off. Not sure if he did it or not.

But your right in a way, it would be pretty cool, and the OP could use it forever as a beginners story...

"When I was younger, I made 200L of rocket fuel, took me 15 months to drink through...."

To the OP, not trying to put you off.
Like others have said, if your keen, then go for it.

Marlow

 

[uniiqueuser]

Thankyou for your most elegant replies.

Without trying to justify myself too much-

1) Winter is running out. I can easily keep brew warm (I brew mostly in the winter) and this works okay. Maybe I will save my attempt at making lager until next winter, after the big move into the mountains where it gets below zero on a regular basis. So the decision is do it now or wait. (Temp is contolled with a thermostat and an electric urn element in the side of the drum)

2) I got the Cascade kits cheap (try $4.00 a can) so there is not much to lose.

3) I regularly brew 200 l and I have had no failures yet.

4) The LBH is also one that sells bongs and hydroponic gear, and the home brew section is about the size of the average toilet. Hence why I left with only four packets of yeast and two packets of hops, and not very good advice. The government should do something.....

5) If I had access to a better LHB perhaps this wouldn't happen. Soon I will be closer to Greensborough Home Brew and (a little further) Grain & Grape (see point 1)

6) This is the beer I like to drink (I haven't tried Cascade kit beer yet though) and though I might be suffering some sort of self delusion it tastes far better than canned Yarra water, and is much cheaper. As far as I am concerned, that is mission accomplished.

7) I usually avoid forums because despite my best efforts at being friendly there is always a small element which tries to turn it into a schoolyard which hunt. It is nice to know that I am at least worthy of your derision, o master (bators?). So maybe I will bugger off and mind my own business, and not bother the Gods with my insignificance again.

 

[bum]

7) It is nice to know that I am at least worthy of your derision, o master (bators?). So maybe I will bugger off and mind my own business, and not bother the Gods with my insignificance again.

Try not to take it personally. There are some god's-gift-to-brewing types about who seem to want to come into the kit brewing section just to deride kit brewing. Dickheads should be ignored. There is a lot of constructive criticism here though - it's not all nasty. This board is extremely helpful and you'd be doing yourself a great disservice to avoid it for personal reasons. This place is a goldmine.

Perhaps I can only speak for myself but I do think everyone who asked about temp control was wondering how you'd keep the temps down - rather than up.

If you do this take some pics and show us how it goes.

 

[marlow_coates]

No need to be sensitive

None of the posts are meant to be malicious or overly rude, as far as I know.
Its just a lot to be brewing for a recipe that you yourself say is different to what you have done in the past.

The advice in above posts is sound, and is meant only to improve your final product.
Of course you don't need to take this advice, it is your beer afterall.

Marlow

 

[bum]

None of the posts are meant to be malicious or overly rude, as far as I know.

I count 2 people doing this.

And one more with some good advice and heap of scorn.

 

[marlow_coates]

Your probably right bum, just re-read posts.

Lager drinker from hell, don't let it get to you.

Marlow