Water Chemistry Increasing Unfermentable Sugars?

[manticle]

If your mash pH is coming out too low, I'd be careful adding anything that drops it, calcium and acidulated included.

Do you need calcium? Is your water report sub 50 ppm? Water pH is (in and of itself) largely irrelevant but mineral content of the water and residual alkalinity are very important as is mash pH.

What roast/dark grains in the red IPA?

Just realised your last brew was a porter and you added a fair bit of calcium salts which may explain the low pH.

Dark malts drop pH, so does calcium so for dark beers you may need to either look at raising pH a tad or steeping dark malts and adding later to the mash.

 

[Fat Bastard]

Yeah, previous water additions were based on EZ Water, which predicts much higher than Brun'. Calcium of Sydney Water (West Ryde Plant) is avg 13.7ppm, although given the wildly varying pH readings I;ve been getting, I have reason to doubt this.

It looks like in future I'll have to set a baseline addition according to the spreadsheet's higest predicted pH and be prepared to adjust downwards if necessary (and upwards if possible/needs be). Dark beers were always more successful for me than pale beers before I started meddling with the forces of water chemistry, so I would not be at all surprised that EZ Water is predicting higher pH than it should be

Red IPA recipe below.

Cheers!

FB

Bongin Bongin Red IPA #8
Imperial IPA

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 25.0
Total Grain (kg): 7.600
Total Hops (g): 582.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.071 (°P): 17.3
Final Gravity (FG): 1.016 (°P): 4.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 7.17 %
Colour (SRM): 22.9 (EBC): 45.1
Bitterness (IBU): 110.3 (Rager)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 74
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
6.000 kg Pearl Malt (78.95%)
0.350 kg Crystal 120 (4.61%)
0.250 kg Candi Syrup, Dark 2 (3.29%)
0.250 kg Crystal 60 (3.29%)
0.200 kg Carapils (Dextrine) (2.63%)
0.200 kg Carared (2.63%)
0.200 kg Dextrose (2.63%)
0.150 kg Chocolate (1.97%)

Hop Bill
----------------
7.0 g Simcoe Pellet (13.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.3 g/L)
10.0 g Warrior Pellet (15.1% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
11.0 g Simcoe Pellet (13.5% Alpha) @ 40 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Warrior Pellet (15.1% Alpha) @ 40 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.5% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
11.0 g Simcoe Pellet (13.5% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
8.0 g Warrior Pellet (15.1% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.3 g/L)
15.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.5% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
18.0 g Simcoe Pellet (13.5% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
10.0 g Warrior Pellet (15.1% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
20.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
17.0 g Simcoe Pellet (13.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
5.0 g Warrior Pellet (15.1% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 g/L)
50.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (2 g/L)
30.0 g Simcoe Pellet (13.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (1.2 g/L)
100.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Aroma) (4 g/L)
50.0 g Simcoe Pellet (13.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Aroma) (2 g/L)
200.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.5% Alpha) @ 5 Days (Dry Hop) (8 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------
0.9 g Calcium Chloride @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
4.2 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
4.0 g Yeast Nutrient @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
8.0 g Brewbrite @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
0.7 g Calcium Chloride @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
3.2 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)

Fermented at 18°C with WLP001 - California Ale

Notes
----------------
Mash Schedule

52/10,62/15.64/45,72/10,78/10

Candi Syrup & Dex added @ 10 minutes before flame out with yeast nutrient & Brewbrite & 10 min hop additions. Meausurement in millilitres, NOT grams

-10 minute aroma hops added after whirlpool pump turned off


2 litre stirplate starter using 1 vial of new WLP-001 pitched whole



Recipe Generated with BrewMate

 

[Fat Bastard]

Pitched on Sunday. This is what greeted me when I got home yesterday.

Cleaned up the mess, and when I got home tonight:

I dont think I've ever had such an extended krausen explosion with WLP-001, on any brew let alone this one. I've done this one with new yeast before without the same effect. The single point of difference here is that I've made my water additions according to Bru'n Water instead of EZ Water. According to the measured mash pH I'm still under 5.2 by .1-.2, but given how much I thought I was under on the porter, I think this is an improvement. I think I'm on the right track here!

If nothing else, it looks cool.

 

[Fat Bastard]

Down to 1.007 (!) now from 1.071.

The hops are absolutely popping in it too!

So, what caused the previous under attenuation? Poor yeast or the water chemistry?

I'm going to lean towards the low pH making the yeast struggle a a bit, given that the previous brew (the porter) had a low pH, but new yeast, albeit a different strain.

Will report back with the finished beer in a few weeks.

Cheers,

FB

 

[manticle]

An interesting quote from a braukaiser experiment that might support your theory if your additions were actually dropping pH too low:

Outside of the 5.4 - 5.6 range the limit of attenuation declines. The slope of decline is steeper towards lower mash pH and a little less steep towards higher mash pH.

 

[bullsneck]

Bongin Bongin Red IPA #8
Imperial IPA
----------------
Mash Schedule

52/10,62/15.64/45,72/10,78/10

Could it also be the lower mash temp on this beer attributing to the lower FG?

 

[Dan Pratt]

Could it also be the lower mash temp on this beer attributing to the lower FG?

that was my first thoughts. mashing lower creating longer fermentable chains that the yeast would rip through, which it did.

 

[Fat Bastard]

Sorry for the confusion guys, I'm actually comparing 3 different beers here, 2 of which have been brewed twice, and the Red IPA, which is on its third go around. Mash schedule has been the same for each beer I.e. the RIPA has always been mashed low.

I wish it was as simple as tweaking the mash!

 

[Fat Bastard]

An interesting quote from a braukaiser experiment that might support your theory if your additions were actually dropping pH too low:

Thanks manticle! There's a couple of "Ah ha!" moments there.

Full link for interested parties: http://braukaiser.com/documents/Effects_of_mash_parameters_on_attenuation_and_efficiency.pdf