water - a dirty secret?
- Thread starter Pickaxe
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Pickaxe
Well-Known Member
Appreciate people's input, there are some good sources and I'm reading up. Thanks manticle esp for your input and article.
Put basically, and from what ive read, water chem is no more or less complex than learning about mashing basics. With every brew things improve and the more I read, the more little mistakes arr corrected.
My original post was more a question as to why water isn't discussed more often, but seems I was wrong. But, I'm surprised still that is not discussed more. And is only a rare recipe I see people adding salts etc. Or discussing it as part of a recipe aim - ie. Hardness, calcium, sulfate levels etc. Yep, I'm nerding out, and really keen to see what some basic chem can do, keep reading and keep learning.
Guess as cb said, I'm gonna give it a go and at the end, I'll still have beer.
Put basically, and from what ive read, water chem is no more or less complex than learning about mashing basics. With every brew things improve and the more I read, the more little mistakes arr corrected.
My original post was more a question as to why water isn't discussed more often, but seems I was wrong. But, I'm surprised still that is not discussed more. And is only a rare recipe I see people adding salts etc. Or discussing it as part of a recipe aim - ie. Hardness, calcium, sulfate levels etc. Yep, I'm nerding out, and really keen to see what some basic chem can do, keep reading and keep learning.
Guess as cb said, I'm gonna give it a go and at the end, I'll still have beer.
Khellendros13
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I have been on a bit of a water chem crash course over the last week or so. Just moved to AG, so thought I may as well make an attempt at the water side too.
What I have discovered, is the majority ignore it for the most part. Now it obviously matters, considering the history of beer and what comes from each unique brewing locale.
Make sure you get scales that measure in .1gm increments. Normal kitchen scales suck
What I have discovered, is the majority ignore it for the most part. Now it obviously matters, considering the history of beer and what comes from each unique brewing locale.
Make sure you get scales that measure in .1gm increments. Normal kitchen scales suck
Mardoo
Noob What Craps On A Bit
Cor blimey, Manticle's paper is the shizz!!! (Link earlier in the thread.) I've skimmed it a number of times but for the first time today sat down and read it properly. Really well put together. My problem has been sorting out what's important and what's not and that paper makes it explicitly clear.
Thirstyboy's advice in Bum's linked thread is awesome too'
Thirstyboy's advice in Bum's linked thread is awesome too'
Adr_0
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A few comments:
1. If you're just moving up to AG you can stuff a beer much more severely than any incremental change you will get from changing water, so you should focus on your process and equipment before adding extra layers of complexity. Adding extra complexity usually invites something else to go wrong, particularly at the new stage where you don't understand the finer points of each part of brewing.
2. If the water 'tastes good out of the tap', that's ok... but perspective is a powerful thing. As Bizier basically said, it can be [one of the] differences between average/good beer and exceptional beer. To be fair, a brewer that understand their water normally understands fermentation, recipe building and wort production pretty bloody well.
3. If the water is off, you definitely notice it. If the water is ballpark for hardness/alkalinity balance you are 90% there. If the water is in the correct half of the field and there aren't any alarming numbers for the style or the effect you're going for, then I would say it's 100% there. The crux of this is don't chase ppm differences. You typically only need to add one or two things; don't overthink it but totally understand the impact your addition is having to the style.
1. If you're just moving up to AG you can stuff a beer much more severely than any incremental change you will get from changing water, so you should focus on your process and equipment before adding extra layers of complexity. Adding extra complexity usually invites something else to go wrong, particularly at the new stage where you don't understand the finer points of each part of brewing.
2. If the water 'tastes good out of the tap', that's ok... but perspective is a powerful thing. As Bizier basically said, it can be [one of the] differences between average/good beer and exceptional beer. To be fair, a brewer that understand their water normally understands fermentation, recipe building and wort production pretty bloody well.
3. If the water is off, you definitely notice it. If the water is ballpark for hardness/alkalinity balance you are 90% there. If the water is in the correct half of the field and there aren't any alarming numbers for the style or the effect you're going for, then I would say it's 100% there. The crux of this is don't chase ppm differences. You typically only need to add one or two things; don't overthink it but totally understand the impact your addition is having to the style.
pyrosx
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This is the crux of the problem right here - there's no such thing as a national water profile - water is completely different city to city, and even suburb to suburb sometimes within cities.Pickaxe said:
This leads onto the biggest problem - what's in your water? How do you know? WIthout a correct base water profile, and additions you make a worse than wild-arsed-guesses.
On the upside, I just did a quick google, and found that Sydney Water has released a lot more info than they had last time I looked - http://www.sydneywater.com.au/SW/water-the-environment/how-we-manage-sydney-s-water/waterquality/typical-drinking-water-analysis/index.htm
manticle
Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
I think he meant the thread that discusses various water profiles within the nation rather than an overall 'national 'water.
Forgive me if it's already been posted. I couldn't see it.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/31331-big-post-of-water-around-australia/
Forgive me if it's already been posted. I couldn't see it.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/31331-big-post-of-water-around-australia/
slash22000
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I wonder, is there anywhere in Australia that does cheap water sample testing? Reading yank forums they seem to be able to get their tap water tested for minerals etc at a lab for reasonable prices.
Droopy Brew
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Most councils have labs that will be able to do a basic Anion and Cation test at a pretty cheap rate. Commercial labs will as well but at much higher rates.
Parks
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I reckon the No. 1 thing with your town water is getting rid of the Chlorine and Chloramine. Most of the city water reports I've seen are pretty OK for mineral content, certainly good enough not to worry about it in your early days of all grain brewing.
I've spent the last 6 ish months getting my head around the water chemistry. It's not for the faint hearted but when striving for perfection it's definitely required.
I've spent the last 6 ish months getting my head around the water chemistry. It's not for the faint hearted but when striving for perfection it's definitely required.
GABBA110360
Well-Known Member
I'm only new to brewing.
about 14 months but from day dot I've used a .45 micron water filter for anything to go into my beer.
there absolutely nothing wrong with the tap water here I just want to purest water I can for my beer.
a cartridge lasts 6 months till it slows normally
ken
about 14 months but from day dot I've used a .45 micron water filter for anything to go into my beer.
there absolutely nothing wrong with the tap water here I just want to purest water I can for my beer.
a cartridge lasts 6 months till it slows normally
ken
Byran
Well-Known Member
That Sydney water analysis is great it shows the exact particulates and salts in the water from which ever treatment plant it comes from. I seem to be using the prospect plant in my area and the water is very soft so is ok for pilsners as is. The Monochloramine smell seems to leave the brew in the heating process but apparently it does not leave the water even with filtration or boiling. http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/disinfection/chloramine/pdfs/Q29.pdf
My understanding is that you add Calcium sulfate to accent flavours for hops and bitter beers, and calcium carbonates for dark beers to help raise the PH from the acidic dark grains.
And more calcium is good for yeast health.
The new update on beersmith allows you to put in your home water profile in PPM for each salt, then it calculates the addition amount for you to achieve the desired water hardness or profile.
Pretty bloody good if you can be arsed learning how to use it.
My understanding is that you add Calcium sulfate to accent flavours for hops and bitter beers, and calcium carbonates for dark beers to help raise the PH from the acidic dark grains.
And more calcium is good for yeast health.
The new update on beersmith allows you to put in your home water profile in PPM for each salt, then it calculates the addition amount for you to achieve the desired water hardness or profile.
Pretty bloody good if you can be arsed learning how to use it.
Pickaxe
Well-Known Member
Ez water calc ad mentioned is great.
Found my calcium levels and sulphate levels are low, ph high, from water profile from supplier and other sources. Will test and alter mash ph, got some calcium chloride and gypsum on order, lactic acid too. Brew day next week should prove interesting. Looking fwd to seeing results to flavour and eff.
Found my calcium levels and sulphate levels are low, ph high, from water profile from supplier and other sources. Will test and alter mash ph, got some calcium chloride and gypsum on order, lactic acid too. Brew day next week should prove interesting. Looking fwd to seeing results to flavour and eff.
Pickaxe
Well-Known Member
Might try beersmith water profile if I start to level out what is going on, but ez water calculator is nice and simple, keeps things less complicated in my view, don't want beersmith getting more complicated than it is already.
Byran
Well-Known Member
I just went through the whole water tool on beersmith because I had to reinstall it and it reset all my info. It seems really well setup , you just put in the PPM for each mineral in your home water( based on info from the suppliers)
then you can choose a water profile that you would like to replicate, there is a long list. And it calculates the best additions for your batch .
And you can save the settings for a quick recipe and it adds the additions for you. Wow its easy to use.
then you can choose a water profile that you would like to replicate, there is a long list. And it calculates the best additions for your batch .
And you can save the settings for a quick recipe and it adds the additions for you. Wow its easy to use.
Pickaxe
Well-Known Member
Sounds good. Might have to give it a go.
mackayboi
New Member
I like to run my water (rain water or city connected supply) through a water filter.
If the taste of the water is pleasant, then it would probably be good for the brew.
Anyone had experience (bad or good) of the use of rain water?
If the taste of the water is pleasant, then it would probably be good for the brew.
Anyone had experience (bad or good) of the use of rain water?
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