water - a dirty secret?

[Tim]

Anyone know when you can get a useful water report for under $1000 ?
(Under $100 would be better)

Is it worth testing for minerals in tank water?

I'm not sure I want to know how much of the colourbond is no longer bonding though.

The local pool shop will do the pH for free, maybe I'll just leave it at that.

Take a sample to the pool shop and ask them to test it for you. Its usually free. My pool shop do a full analysis,not just pH.

Tim

 

[Dan Pratt]

Take a sample to the pool shop and ask them to test it for you. Its usually free. My pool shop do a full analysis,not just pH.

Tim

Your pool shop does a full analysis for free ( usually ) did you buy a pool from them aswell....lol

Jokes aside, can you show us the report you have from them?

 

[Keppmiestet]

I find the Ez water spreadsheet seems to be always out for getting my ph right , it always ends up more alkaline then predicted on the spreadsheet using the grain bill and salts. Maybe due to it not being able to deal with the thinner mash of BIAB . Anyone else have this drama ?

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

I find the Ez water spreadsheet seems to be always out for getting my ph right , it always ends up more alkaline then predicted on the spreadsheet using the grain bill and salts. Maybe due to it not being able to deal with the thinner mash of BIAB . Anyone else have this drama ?

Are you adjusting for mash temps? The PH will appear lower at higher temps. From memory the PH will be 0.2-3 points lower than actual when measuring at mash temps.

This is why some quote the ideal range as 5.2-5.4 and some 5.4-5.6

 

[Keppmiestet]

Yeah that is true , I only check my mash ph 10 to 15 minutes after dough in and I cool the sample to 25 degrees then test. Always out by a fair bit . Ez calculates 5.4 ph after salt additions and I get 5.8 actual then have to use lactic acid to drop it to correct level. Just wonder how accurate the spreadsheet is for BIAB application as the mash volume is much greater as is water to grain ratio.

 

[eamonnfoley]

Yeah that is true , I only check my mash ph 10 to 15 minutes after dough in and I cool the sample to 25 degrees then test. Always out by a fair bit . Ez calculates 5.4 ph after salt additions and I get 5.8 actual then have to use lactic acid to drop it to correct level. Just wonder how accurate the spreadsheet is for BIAB application as the mash volume is much greater as is water to grain ratio.

It shouldn't be that far out for BIAB. While L:G ratio has an effect on mash pH, its not a big impact. I find the Braukaiser's spreadsheet to be spot on for mash pH estimation. Always noticed its a little different to the others. Also ensure your pH meter is properly calibrated and stored correctly. By the way 5.4 (room temp) is quoted as a good target for lagers - but 5.5-5.6 seems to be a better target for ales. Fermentation pH drop is more aggressive with ale yeasts. But there are many factors at play here. Good practice is to see where your beer ends up. 4.2-4.4 is a good place for tasty & microbiologically stable beers. I've measured a few classic Australian and German commercial beers and they seem to be in this range.

 

[Keppmiestet]

I am starting to wonder how accurate my water profile info is for the area I live in, Rutherford NSW. Will do calibration on my meter also. How often should it be calibrated ? I always store it so the glass probe stays moist in de-ironised water in the little cap that covers it

 

[eamonnfoley]

I am starting to wonder how accurate my water profile info is for the area I live in, Rutherford NSW. Will do calibration on my meter also. How often should it be calibrated ? I always store it so the glass probe stays moist in de-ironised water in the little cap that covers it

Best thing is to get some pH storage solution, put it in a glass and keep the probe immersed in it when not using it.
My probe sits permanently in a kolsch glass with the tip in the fluid, and foil over the top.
I calibrate everytime i brew or keg because it could be anything from weeks to months.

 

[heyhey]

Water profiles will change seasonally and with weather events. Any authority report will be an average. Most industries requiring a particular water chemistry have their own analysis equipment and authorities notify them of changes to supply sources.

 

[Keppmiestet]

Thanks for the info, I will have to do some more tweaking by the sounds of that till I get consistency . The water aspect of all grain is by far the trickiest thing to get my head around. There is a lot of conflicting info out there too.

 

[anthonyUK]

A good compromise is to use your water company for everything except alkalinity and measure this every brew if possible using a meter or kit such as the Salifert one.
The salt additions are relevant but not to the same degree a getting the the mash pH right.
The next step is to ensure you have enough calcium and then look at Sulphate:Chloride ratios.

 

[William3265]

I think water is areal hard topic to discuss

 

[Ciderman]

You guys sound like you know what you're doing. I'm new to brewing and I've put down 4 all grain beers in my 3V set up. Each beer I'm seeing improvement and I'm finding I have a real thirst for knowledge on the subject.

My latest beer tastes great, but one thing I've got wrong is my water choice. I have been buying the reverse osmosis water from outside the brew shops thinking it was better than tap water. The thing is though I never gave it anymore thought which means I have made no additions to the water. I've completely neglected the measurement of PH so I would like to address this for my next brew.

Looking forward, what is the best water option? Continue buying RO water and making the additions, setting up a water filter under the sink and use that or something else like rainwater?

 

[manticle]

Depends what you have access to but the RO water plus your own additions is a good option. Many brewers set up ro filters so they can start with a blank slate. Clean rainwater is another good option - can you get it tested for mineral content?

 

[Ciderman]

I don't have rainwater at the moment. Unrelated to beer I have been thinking about getting it for a while so it's an option. I guess the cheapest option is to buy a water filter for your sink. I've seen them for $100 ish. Thoughts on that? Or better to invest the extra money on RO system.

 

[peas_and_corn]

Water is the very last thing you should work on. Given that you recently posted about efficiency and fermentation/mash schedule difficulties, now is not the time to look at your water- you won't know what effect your additions are making if you don't have a consistent, reliable method. Fiddling with your water is nice, but get everything else down good first.

 

[manticle]

P&c is right. Unless your water source is really nasty, its something to look at at the end of the road, rather than the start.
If you look at a filter, you want charcoal or RO. Don't get a mineral/ion exchange water softener.

 

[Ciderman]

Water is the very last thing you should work on. Given that you recently posted about efficiency and fermentation/mash schedule difficulties, now is not the time to look at your water- you won't know what effect your additions are making if you don't have a consistent, reliable method. Fiddling with your water is nice, but get everything else down good first.

I'm a quick learner. Most of my issues were the fault of a bad thermometer. I've read that using RO water on its own can cause effeciency issues, so perhaps it's part of my problem.

 

[QldKev]

I don't have rainwater at the moment. Unrelated to beer I have been thinking about getting it for a while so it's an option. I guess the cheapest option is to buy a water filter for your sink. I've seen them for $100 ish. Thoughts on that? Or better to invest the extra money on RO system.

Check out my Easy Water Filter setup. I'm happy with the quality it produces.

I looked at the RO setups, but to me they are slow, waste water and often have many parts/filter that need swapping out so become expensive.

 

[Jkpentreath]

Hey matey, I've just mounted a 100 buck carbon filter to the side of my three tier it knocks out chorine and nasty pathergenes, but leaves all the calcium. The boys r right best way to learn is to get a really simple couple of beers , brew them over, then once u have that process perfect u can tweek that process , to really understand what u have changed, have u ready smirtos golden recipe on brewadelaide? Very good prospective. I wanted to brew more often so I dropped to 15 lt batches.
Also just wondering if the biab guys have tried doing a thicker mash , then adding the 10 lt at the end of the mash , that would have to drop it considerably. Anyone do this?