water - a dirty secret?

[Adr_0]

I'm a quick learner. Most of my issues were the fault of a bad thermometer. I've read that using RO water on its own can cause effeciency issues, so perhaps it's part of my problem.

This is true in that there is no/little calcium available in RO water which can push your pH outside the ideal range. This means that conversion will take longer, ie if you mash for a set time you may not be getting full conversion efficiency vs if you had pH correct. You can also do a longer mash to assist with conversion efficiency if your pH is off.

Note that this is just conversion efficiency, not lauter efficiency ( both of which contribute to mash efficiency) and this is also not brewhouse efficiency - but it can have an affect on all of these if you fail to compensate in other ways.

 

[TheWiggman]

I echo the above but probably the thing to take out of this is that RO water will have almost zero mineral content and your tap water is likely to have quite a different profile. RO could be considered a 'blank slate' but before treating anything, you need to know what's in it. While you're dialling in the system and getting efficiency and process under control, get hold of a water report so that when you're ready to take the leap into water chemistry you have the tools to do it.
Oh, and get a pH tester. Brewing water books will state that if you don't plan to get one, you might as well not read the book.

 

[QldKev]

Water profiles will change seasonally and with weather events. Any authority report will be an average. Most industries requiring a particular water chemistry have their own analysis equipment and authorities notify them of changes to supply sources.

Last time I spoke with the local council about the water analysis the guy asked what was it for. When I told him he explained that the water comes from 3 main sources, and they do vary in chemistry (one source is ground water). At any point of time the water could be from any of them, or a mixture of any of them. He said the water report is just the last audit point that ensures which ever mix they are using, that it is within the guidelines. So the water you get today could be different to tomorrows, but it should always be within the guidelines. He did mention whilst not to expect it to be 100% as per the report, it will give you a basis for the type of water in your area. Some areas are know for high levels of dissolved solids etc and that would be reflected in the report.

 

[MHB]

[SIZE=medium]I really enjoyed the new(ish) book "Water" by Palmer and Kaminski. It’s a sane look at water and tries to get away from the really dated concept of regional water (Munich, Burton, Dublin...) and looks at the effect of the salts on a style of beer.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]A worthwhile investment if you are taking water chemistry seriously.
Mark[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]

 

[Ciderman]

Check out my Easy Water Filter setup. I'm happy with the quality it produces.

I looked at the RO setups, but to me they are slow, waste water and often have many parts/filter that need swapping out so become expensive.

Looks great Kev, as it's so cheap it can't hurt to give this a go. The 3rd piece from China, I see there were a few problems there, could you use anything else?

 

[QldKev]

Looks great Kev, as it's so cheap it can't hurt to give this a go. The 3rd piece from China, I see there were a few problems there, could you use anything else?

If I did it again I would just get a 1/4" bsp bolt and loosely put it in the end. If that doesn't flow enough then I'd try grilling a small hole in the bolt longways to let more flow. You should even be able to get a plastic bolt.

 

[Yeastfridge]

Also just wondering if the biab guys have tried doing a thicker mash , then adding the 10 lt at the end of the mash , that would have to drop it considerably. Anyone do this?

Drop what considerably? (sorry, just joining this conversation)
I do this type of mashing regularly so I can step mash (usually 63, 70, 76C), which is called a Hockkirsch mash.

I pay lots of attention to PH, calcium and my chloride/sulfate ratio, but add all my salts into the mash and then add my usual chlorine-filtered tap water when stepping up. I would consider myself a chemistry and beer nerd and can definitely taste a big difference with the salts and acid additions. Do a saison with a high sulfate, low chloride water and another with high chloride but little sulfate and the difference is massive.

 

[Adr_0]

Drop what considerably? (sorry, just joining this conversation)
I do this type of mashing regularly so I can step mash (usually 63, 70, 76C), which is called a Hockkirsch mash.

I pay lots of attention to PH, calcium and my chloride/sulfate ratio, but add all my salts into the mash and then add my usual chlorine-filtered tap water when stepping up. I would consider myself a chemistry and beer nerd and can definitely taste a big difference with the salts and acid additions. Do a saison with a high sulfate, low chloride water and another with high chloride but little sulfate and the difference is massive.

I just did one with about 220ppm sulphate (final content). Only 50% attenuated at this stage but hoping it's nice and sharp. How did the sulphate one end up?

 

[Jkpentreath]

Drop what considerably? (sorry, just joining this conversation)
I do this type of mashing regularly so I can step mash (usually 63, 70, 76C), which is called a Hockkirsch mash.
I pay lots of attention to PH, calcium and my chloride/sulfate ratio, but add all my salts into the mash and then add my usual chlorine-filtered tap water when stepping up. I would consider myself a chemistry and beer nerd and can definitely taste a big difference with the salts and acid additions. Do a saison with a high sulfate, low chloride water and another with high chloride but little sulfate and the difference is massive.

mash ph?

 

[Yeastfridge]

I don't have a PH probe but the calculator I use (Brewer's Friend website) estimated around 5.2. There were a couple of grams of citric acid in there too.

 

[Yeastfridge]

I just did one with about 220ppm sulphate (final content). Only 50% attenuated at this stage but hoping it's nice and sharp. How did the sulphate one end up?

Came out great, a really nice dry finish, almost reminds me of the fine chalky tannin you get in amphora (clay vessel) fermented wines I used to get to drink when I worked in a fancy Italian restaurant. I think mine was somewhere around 150ppm. I think 220 will be great.

 

[peas_and_corn]

I don't have a PH probe but the calculator I use (Brewer's Friend website) estimated around 5.2. There were a couple of grams of citric acid in there too.

If it's correct (and that's a big if) you're on the low side so cut the acid addition

 

[neal32]

Other than locking down my fermentation process(fridge, o2, stir plate), starting from RO water had the biggest impact (started AG in Perth, terrible, just terrible water). People that say otherwise are probably basing there opinion off ego rather than science/honest results.

It really depends, if you want the best beer possible, you can't use anything else but RO/Distilled water to start. No doubt you can make good, even great beer with tap water, but not the best. Same goes with step mashes, they improve efficiency, mouth feel, head retention. People will say they are unnecessary, which is true in the same way that AG is unnecessary to make beer, but if your goal is to make the best beer possible which is my goal everytime I brew, I use RO water/step mashes. YMMV

 

[TheWiggman]

It really depends, if you want the best beer possible, you can't use anything else but RO/Distilled water to start.

Surely you jest? Are you saying that historical brewing using natural water sources would be made better by using RO and adjusting? I can't agree. If your brew is tailored to your water then you can't make it better by using RO water and modifying it. In fact I'd suggest some beer can't be made better than by using natural water.

Going from rubbish water to RO, completely different story.