water - a dirty secret?
- Thread starter Pickaxe
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mackayboi
New Member
It's interesting, on face value, one would think rain water would be the best for home brew. No chemicals / additives and water as pure as it probably could get, straight from the clouds.
It is only after reading this thread that there maybe more to water, especially with water hardness, minerals and ions just to name a few.
My question is this, does the type of water make a significant difference to the quality of the end product? Or is it more to replicate the flavor in a name brand beer in question?
It is only after reading this thread that there maybe more to water, especially with water hardness, minerals and ions just to name a few.
My question is this, does the type of water make a significant difference to the quality of the end product? Or is it more to replicate the flavor in a name brand beer in question?
manticle
Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
Depends on the water in question. Can make a massive difference, can just make a small difference. Definitely makes a difference of one sort or another though.
I studied this whole water thing mainly to hit correct pH levels for my mash and achieve proper conversion.
I use palmer's EZ water calculator which enables me to achive this and after a few tries, I've got the hang of it.
In a way, this is still my approach: add just enough salts to manipulate pH and WALK AWAY!.
Otherwise, buy a pH meter, a chemestry degree and several hours to deconstruct water and rebuild it again and achieve acidity the old fashion way (ie an acid rest).
There is no middle ground IMHO and this clearly divides brewers into two camps
roffessor nutheads and "canbebotheredtratingwater"ers.
I use palmer's EZ water calculator which enables me to achive this and after a few tries, I've got the hang of it.
In a way, this is still my approach: add just enough salts to manipulate pH and WALK AWAY!.
Otherwise, buy a pH meter, a chemestry degree and several hours to deconstruct water and rebuild it again and achieve acidity the old fashion way (ie an acid rest).
There is no middle ground IMHO and this clearly divides brewers into two camps
roffessor nutheads and "canbebotheredtratingwater"ers.
manticle
Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
Acid rests aren't that effective unless done for hours as far as I'm aware.
I follow methods quite similar to yours (although it helps understanding what and why) but I think you overstate the complexity of someone filtering their water then adding salts and/or acid. No need for a chemistry degree.
I follow methods quite similar to yours (although it helps understanding what and why) but I think you overstate the complexity of someone filtering their water then adding salts and/or acid. No need for a chemistry degree.
GalBrew
Well-Known Member
I use the EZ calc and go off the mean levels for the water coming from Silvan reservoir, which is what supplies my house.syl said:
Pickaxe
Well-Known Member
So I've run a couple of brews with Salt adds.
Last brew I could measure the pH, hit 5.4 pH in the Mash with a 7gm add of both CACl and Gypsum to the strike water.
This is Noosa water in case anyone local is interested.
This was in a basic Aussie Ale.
23L
4.5 kg Pale Malt BB
.25kg Carared
(forgot to order wheat malt this brew - derp)
7gm of each was added to 25L strike water, 3gm of each added to sparge water @ 11.5L.
Added 1/4kg dex, and Hopped with POR pellets at 60 min. Really basic recipe.
Will post tasting results in a few weeks. Have a previous brew I added 5gm of each to strike, 2.5gm of each to sparge, basic ale, but hopped with Motueka @ 60, 20, 15 & 0 : 30, 20, 20, 20. Should show me the effect on hop prescence, flavour etc.
May have improved my efficiency - which is up to a solid 70%, up from 60 to 65% at best, however, this could be down to me getting more experienced with my setup and processes now. Makes it hard to know if hitting my numbers was helped by the salt additions, but i guess its all part of getting a best practice regime happening.
Last brew I could measure the pH, hit 5.4 pH in the Mash with a 7gm add of both CACl and Gypsum to the strike water.
This is Noosa water in case anyone local is interested.
This was in a basic Aussie Ale.
23L
4.5 kg Pale Malt BB
.25kg Carared
(forgot to order wheat malt this brew - derp)
7gm of each was added to 25L strike water, 3gm of each added to sparge water @ 11.5L.
Added 1/4kg dex, and Hopped with POR pellets at 60 min. Really basic recipe.
Will post tasting results in a few weeks. Have a previous brew I added 5gm of each to strike, 2.5gm of each to sparge, basic ale, but hopped with Motueka @ 60, 20, 15 & 0 : 30, 20, 20, 20. Should show me the effect on hop prescence, flavour etc.
May have improved my efficiency - which is up to a solid 70%, up from 60 to 65% at best, however, this could be down to me getting more experienced with my setup and processes now. Makes it hard to know if hitting my numbers was helped by the salt additions, but i guess its all part of getting a best practice regime happening.
manticle
Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
CaCl2 or dr smurto will get you.
Pickaxe
Well-Known Member
Does Dr smurto look anything like Walt?
******* chem Nazi.
******* chem Nazi.
Yes I didn't express myself well.manticle said:
All I meant to say is that i think the learning curve is steeper for water chem than for other brewing aspects, and perhaps that's why there is less activity in the forum than for other topics as per op's question.
Syl. When I started adding salts I measured with ph strips. After a couple of goes it was clear than calculations land you pretty much where you want and now I don't. I get about 75% efficiency for a 1.048og.
brentice
Well-Known Member
Im not a big fan of water. After all fish fark in it....True story
syl
Well-Known Member
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I am starting to take it on board now, love the PDF linked on page 1.
Going to do a water test and have a water tester, some pH stabiliser, calcium chloride and calcium sulphate on order.
Will do my first adjusting on this weekend's brew!
Going to do a water test and have a water tester, some pH stabiliser, calcium chloride and calcium sulphate on order.
Will do my first adjusting on this weekend's brew!
This has me confused. It sayspyrosx said:
but the supplied link is to 'Potts Hill'.
When I open the Potts Hill link, the PDF Title says 'Water analysis: North Richmond water supply system' but the text says 'Water analysis: Potts Hill water supply system' ???
Other areas have links to Prospect North, South and East. Which one is the right one?
I'd just got to thinking about water when I ended up taking a bit of a break from brewing.
There's a lot to digest in making beer and for me, water was bottom of that list but now I'm there, back at the bottom of the list, confused as ever.
Pickaxe
Well-Known Member
From what I understand, Calcium Chloride and Calcium Sulphate are pH stabilisers (for alkaline waters). What stabiliser are you referring to?
Pickaxe
Well-Known Member
If you need to, contact your water supplier. Other thing is to see if there's a marked difference in the zones' water profiles, and whether you need to know precisely which area you're in. The differences might be minor enough not to worry too much.hsb said:
I emailed them to confirm. Water is complex enough. I'd rather get the information correct from source, than have to deduce it from a variety of reports where I'm not certain what is the right one.
You're probably right, that there is not going to be enough of a difference to worry, but might as well start well, even if I still make a mess of it.
My tentative first steps were in line with previously posted, but can't say I'd noticed strikingly different results, too many variables maybe.
You're probably right, that there is not going to be enough of a difference to worry, but might as well start well, even if I still make a mess of it.
My tentative first steps were in line with previously posted, but can't say I'd noticed strikingly different results, too many variables maybe.
manticle
Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
Won't be strikingly different unless your water is awful (like those poor WA guys). With good starting water, it's a tweak, a bit of polish, a little bit of garnish to set it all off just so.
With salts it is akin to seasoning a meal, with acid adjustments and calcium salts you are helping the yeast and enzymes. Give them a touch of love.
With salts it is akin to seasoning a meal, with acid adjustments and calcium salts you are helping the yeast and enzymes. Give them a touch of love.
Nicely put manticle. My first forays have been tentative, and I don't doubt that there is much benefit to be had. The OPs point is a good one and, for me at least, I think the too hard/complex explanation is definitely the one. There's a lot to absorb with water chemistry and because we all have different base profiles, no 'one size fits all' solution that you can look to with most other aspects of brewing.
We almost need 'Water' subforums centred around people with the same water profiles, then people can share their experiences, what works/what doesn't, in some kind of meaningful way. At the moment it's too varied. It can be hard to know if someone is using rainwater or filtered water or if they have high local this mineral etc.. to get some basic advice to get started and begin experimenting in the same way you might do using different hopping techniques or new mashing schedules etc.
We almost need 'Water' subforums centred around people with the same water profiles, then people can share their experiences, what works/what doesn't, in some kind of meaningful way. At the moment it's too varied. It can be hard to know if someone is using rainwater or filtered water or if they have high local this mineral etc.. to get some basic advice to get started and begin experimenting in the same way you might do using different hopping techniques or new mashing schedules etc.
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