Wash/fill Couplers

[HKS]

The age old question of opening, cleaning and filling commercial kegs could be a thing of the past if you used a wash/fill coupler, re: pic.

I've found 2 places that sell them, Kegman and St Pats. They are both D type couplers. Are these really any different to a regular coupler? To me it looks like they have just removed the 1 way valve on the beer side and then used taps on each and a 1/2" fitting on each (for better flow) Why can't you convert a dispense coupler into a wash/fill coupler?

Looking at my Andale D type coupler. Its easy to remove the 1 way valve and then you can see straight through, no blockages or restrictions. The gas side doesn't have any 1 way valves.

The beer out becomes the in port. The gas in becomes the out port. Then, fill the keg with cleaning solution. Shake it around, maybe even leave it over night. Then invert the keg. I plan on using a fish tank pump to circulate the cleaning solution for a period of time. Then flush out with hot water. Sanatise and rinse with cooled boiled water. Then its ready to fill. Stand keg up again. Beer out is now beer in. When it comes out the gas port you know its full :lol:

I can't see why you can't convert any coupler to a wash/fill coupler, so its not just restricted to D types.

The reason I ask, I was about to buy a clean/fill coupler from Kegman, but I'm starting to think its a waste of money and they are full of it about them being different to a regular coupler. Here's what St Pats say about wash/fill couplers.
"Please note the Clean/Fill Coupler is not the same as the Dispense Coupler. They appear very similar but they are not interchangeable."

Cheers

 

[dig]

The proper cleaning couplers have a bigger bore, both in and out. Standard ones work fine though if you remove the 'torpedo' valve. And if you have a decent pump.

Kegs are designed to be cleaned upside down. See if you can rig something up that pumps cleaning solution up the spear and let it drain via the side 'gas' port into a resevior to be circulated through again. If using caustic, don't forget to blow your keg down with air before you start.

 

[HKS]

Cheers for that. So they are actually a bigger bore then rather than just using bigger connections. Yeah the plan is to definitely have them inverted when pumping cleaning solution through. I'm sure the pump will handle it cause it can flow 1200L with 2 metre head.

I'm going to give it a try and see how it goes.

I can't see any need to open the keg. Maybe 1 in 5 just to check it is clean. But once clean it should never need to be opened, if the cleaning regime is thorough.

 

[dig]

But once clean it should never need to be opened, if the cleaning regime is thorough.

Absolutely. No need to open them. As with all things brewing, if in doubt, ask yourself this: What do they do in real breweries? Find out, and then do that.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

As with all things brewing, if in doubt, ask yourself this: What do they do in real breweries? Find out, and then do that.

But I don't *want* to make VB...

 

[dig]

But I don't *want* to make VB...

Oh come on, you know you secretly do

 

[///]

Remember you can blow out most stuff (except caustic) with co2. As Dig will know, most guys just rig up stuff and use their pump.

Also, if you use Acid then no need to rinse afterwards...

 

[HKS]

If using caustic, don't forget to blow your keg down with air before you start.

I'm confused about this step. What's the purpose? Do you mean hooking up an air compressor and air drying the inside before I start cleaning? (which I can do but don't see the point) What's the reasoning behind doing that?

Remember you can blow out most stuff (except caustic) with co2. As Dig will know, most guys just rig up stuff and use their pump.

Also, if you use Acid then no need to rinse afterwards...

Again I'm unsure why I need to blow anything out. Does the keg need to be dried inside before I clean it. Or dried after I cleaned it. I understand purging the keg with Co2 before I fill it to remove all the oxygen.

I thought I had this down but now I'm confused. :huh:

 

[bigfridge]

I'm confused about this step. What's the purpose? Do you mean hooking up an air compressor and air drying the inside before I start cleaning? (which I can do but don't see the point) What's the reasoning behind doing that?
Again I'm unsure why I need to blow anything out. Does the keg need to be dried inside before I clean it. Or dried after I cleaned it. I understand purging the keg with Co2 before I fill it to remove all the oxygen.

I thought I had this down but now I'm confused. :huh:

What I think both of the quotes are saying is that you can't use CO2 and Caustic cleaning solutions together.

They react to form a precipitate (can't remember the chemistry right now) and this both neutralises the Caustic cleaner and consumes the CO2.

The precipitate and buggared cleaner are a mild annoyance but when all the CO2 gets sucked up it can collapse the container (ie your keg) unless there is some gas to replace the missing CO2 or is vented to the atmosphere.

This is a standard warning given in all brewing textbooks as it is very embarrassing to see a fermenter crumple up in front of you.

 

[dig]

Hot caustic reacts strongly with CO2. If you pump hot caustic up through the spear of an upside down empty keg filled with CO2, you'll pull a vacuum inside the keg, causing it to fill up with your caustic cleaning solution rather than draining itself though the gas port of the coupler. You'll end up with a very heavy keg full of caustic.

Purge it with air first and quite the opposite will happen; the hot caustic will heat (but not react with) the air inside the keg which will result in positive internal pressure that will blast the caustic out from the gas port. Clean, empty keg ready to be rinsed/sanitised.

Don't forget though, once cleaned, the keg will need to be blown back up with CO2 to prevent oxidation of your beer. Blow down, caustic, sanitise, blow back up.

 

[///]

Also by using pressure you can push things around. Below is the keg washing apparatus that most plants I have worked in use to clean kegs - albeit no hoses are connected....

Scotty

 

[HKS]

Thanks guys for the chemistry lesson. I think I should have paid more attention in Chemistry class in school. :lol:

The blowing the CO2 out of the keg I wouldn't have even thought of. I would have thought that releasing all the CO2 would be enough.

Now to workout a way, yay more fittings, (as the Mrs rolls her eyes) to hookup my compressor to the coupler. Haha I just got the "how much money are you spending on this" Enough to do the job right the 1st time!

I'm lucky the Mrs drinks as much beer as I do. The spreadsheet was also handy to show her I only need to brew 5 batches for it to pay for itself! Now that settles her, off I go to spend more money!

Cheers guys, much appreciated.

 

[MHB]

I have been selling these for years

View attachment 16814

Rather than a blatant in thread add.
They are from Lancer (was Pacific now something Japanese) Nut 5/8" (700331), Tail 1/2" (120204) and Washer 5/8" (700997) (part numbers in bracket) it's just a 1/2" screw on barb for any of the common keg tappers.

They take a piece of garden hose, or anything else you want to hook up to them. Back when I used 50L kegs I had an (old 18L Myton Ream keg) that I used as a washout keg; put the cleaning chemicals into it, with a jug of boiling water; then flushed the cleaner into the 50L keg.
Shake well, then connect to a garden hoes to flush out the cleaner; boiling water back into the washout keg, from there into the 50L keg for a rinse.

A lot cheaper than a new washout fitting; then I saw the light and went to Corney kegs

MHB

 

[HKS]

Cheers Mark,

I like to get an understanding of something, atleast a little before I come down and waste your time. Then my little understanding grows into total understanding after I speak with you. Its always appreciated mate and a pleasure doing business with you.

I'll be down tomorrow with holesaw in 1 hand (thanks again), cash in the other for some 1/2" fittings, if you are open?

 

[MHB]

I'll be here - then I am off for 2 whole all joined up week's first break in a couple of years!

See ya

Mark MHB