Violence In Pubs

[Dazza_devil]

Anyone else noticed an increaase in the levels and amounts of violence in pubs over the last 10 years?
A lot of this I think is being blamed on alcohol when there are a lot of other drugs involved.

 

[bum]

The only violence I have ever seen in pubs are where there are coverbands. The band doesn't have to be on at the time, obviously.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

No increase - I've seen people getting the snot beaten out of them in pubs since I started going to them as a roadie/hanger on for my Dad's band when I was 6 years old. So thats the last 34 years at least.

I know the the media is bleating and moaning about the "violence in the CBD" and how its getting out of control - but seriously, going down to King street has been the perfect way to enhance your chances of being stabbed in the spleen; for as long as I have lived in Melbourne. It's just that nowadays some ********* will film it on their mobile phone; and people who wouldn't have blinked an eye at the two lines in the paper that detailed your "unprovoked assault" - get all uppity when the channel 7 news makes them watch you bleed on National Tellly.

It'd be lovely to blame the young people and the new fangled drugs - But if you don't know anyone who gets a bit agro when they've had a couple - you're one of the few. At the end of the day people have been getting pissed and getting punchy forever. Trying to deny that its mainly the booze that does it is hiding your head under the blanket.

 

[manticle]

I completely agree with thirsty boy. When I grew up there were gangs of skinheads, punks and bogans. When I was a teen/early adult, night/strip clubs were appearing every day in king street and violence was supposedly on the increase. Nowadays there's machete fights and bouncers killing cricketers on every street corner. It's just a media beat up of the same things that have existed since pubs first started serving beer. Same old scare tactics, different generation of gullible newspaper buyers.

In my 33 years, the number of times I've felt genuinely physically threatened in a pub I could count on my right hand and still get change. Violence does happen and alcohol, late nights, bravado and drugs certainly add fuel to the fire. Please tell me which of these things are new things though.

 

[Dazza_devil]

The first pub I went to was the Menai Hotel in Burnie when I was only 14. Witnessed a stabbing and listen to people talking in tongues on LSD (or something).lol

 

[Tony M]

Was always a regular pub goer from 1962 until children curbed the old lifestyle. I never saw one fight; got assailed by poofters a couple of times so maybe I frequented the wrong pubs. Saw lots of guys spew and collapse in a heap but they were only damaging themselves. We spent many a night in the 70's in the 500 head barns entertained by very loud rock bands and never witnessed a fracas, And everybody poured themselves into their cars and drove home. Most of us got there but we had to drive home with one eye closed so we knew which double white line to follow. Definitely no angry people those days!!

 

[sumo]

It's just that nowadays some ********* will film it on their mobile phone;

I agree, the increase in "on the spot" media is why you see the increase in assaults. In the days gone by it would not have been news worthy, however nowadays they have mobiles that can take excellent quality media.

 

[np1962]

I agree, the increase in "on the spot" media is why you see the increase in assaults. In the days gone by it would not have been news worthy, however nowadays they have mobiles that can take excellent quality media.

Am sitting here reading this and watching the morning news, story on one girl attacking another while a guy films it on his mobile.
Guy filming has been charged with assault along with the attacker.
About time I say!
Don't know which state Elanora is in..

Nige

 

[bum]

I know a few coppers and they all reckon alcohol related violence in the city (Melbourne) is way higher than it used to be - pretty sure they get a more accurate picture than the numbers given to the media.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I know a few coppers and they all reckon alcohol related violence in the city (Melbourne) is way higher than it used to be - pretty sure they get a more accurate picture than the numbers given to the media.

Fair enough - not going to argue with the coppers about it, they would know. But ... there are a hell of a lot more venues and a hell of a lot more people in the city than there ever used to be. I remember 15 years ago going out in the city and on a Saturday night you could have shot a cannon up Swanston st and not hit anybody (well, OK one or two deros maybe). So perhaps the total number of incidents is up. But the chances of an individual person, in a given venue getting in trouble - it just doesn't seem all that different to me.

Sure, I'm more nervous walking around at 2:00am than I used to be... but I'm also a lot older, a lot more aware of whats going on around me and a lot less mentally bulletproof than was when I was 21 too. Old people feel the same way when they go to the shops at lunchtime as I do when I'm out at midnight. So when I'm 85 I'll probably be convinced that the teenagers drinking coke and running around on the street are violent gangs bent on beating up all the old people they see. Occasionally I'll be right, but mostly I'll just be more scared than once I was.

Anyway - most of the new fangled drugs just make you want to dance and hug people - maybe we should be encouraging them rather than berating the young people. Lets launch a campaign to make the streets of the nation safer. Hand out free E's on the street corners and pipe techno music into all public places. Us old people are too deaf to hear the music anyway and the worst that could happen to you on the way to the shops is getting spontaneously hugged by a 17 year old girl wearing nothing but a sparkly hankie...

 

[svyturys]

I remember 15 years ago going out in the city and on a Saturday night you could have shot a cannon up Swanston st and not hit anybody

I agree with Thirsty Boy.
As a working musician I would see more pubs and clubs from all angles and all times of day and night in a week than most people would in a month or more.
The worst brawls I have witnessed have been in the country and at suburban football clubs.
On particular one in Warracknabeal would have made King St. look like a boy scout boxing bout.
St Kilda, Carlton, Brunswick etc would only have very minor hassles if any.
Stage managed a heavy metal fire aid night in the city centre a couple of weeks ago and when I checked with the bored looking security as to whether their were any hassles..."Only a couple of girls having a go at each other." (That was at 5am)
Where Thirsty Boy has hit it on the head is that trouble moves from location to location. In the 70's and 80's it was the suburban beer barns that were the focus.
The pattern appears to be something like this.
New music scene starts.
The buzz goes out and it gets bigger.
It catches on in mainstream large venues and attracts people that don't necessarily go out to hear music.
Things get rough and the actual music scene moves onto something new somewhere else.
Repeat the pattern.
(At the moment there is a lovely underground movement in Dubstep and drum and bass. They have peaceful happenings in certain places. If it hits mainstream then we'll probably see those styles vilified if it gets to an incident.)
Cheers

 

[brendanos]

I blame two things: methamphetamines, and dickheads.
I try to avoid antisocial people or behavior but encounter it constantly. I'd much prefer TB's world!

 

[technocat]

Punch ups in the pubs have been around for yonks only the rules have changed. People today have got more malicious when a person is down it doesn't end there. Personally I think today's lifestyle breeds aggression and any poor ******* on the receiving end can easily lose his/her life or worse end up trapped in a useless body. The aggressor usually does time, some walk away and no one really gives a stuff except the people involved. Sad as it may seem society suffers these lunatics that perpetuate such violence just because they don't know when they have had enough and lose control of all human decency popping a few pills.

 

[caleb]

I saw a few fights when I was younger - depends on which venue you go to... (and yes I concur with Svyturys - the heavy metal gigs were actually pretty peaceful - high energy but no violence).

Nowdays I avoid that sort of place anyway - I can't imagine fights breaking out in the sort of pub I go to nowdays. I prefer somewhere with an open fire, good food, ales on tap, maybe a few soft couches...

To my mind, the warning signs are:
* a dress code
* a bouncer at the door
* a DJ
* a cover-charge to get in
* big que at the bar with most people ordering RTD alcopops or shooters or some garbage like that...

I never actually enjoyed those places, and now avoid them like the plague. Worst place I ever remember was a nightclub where they not only sold only tiny bottled water for around $4 (no free tapwater) but had removed ALL the taps in the bathrooms so you couldn't even drink water there... or wash your hands after using the toilet. Disgusting, a violation of health regulations, and total lack of respect for patrons.

 

[Polar Beer]

My experience tally's with TBs and others on here. Violence has been going on for ever. My rule has always been that if the venue needs a bouncer, then expect to find wankers inside. Also expect that the venue will have marketed to and encouraged these wankers to patron their bar. In the boring outer suburb of Melton where I grew up, there is and always has been very violent fights every Friday and Saturday night at the horrible excuse for pubs they have there. At least 3 bouncers on the door and more inside.

To get away from that crowd, I played in a very loud and very bad band for many years, in some of Melbourne's dingiest little holes. These places were full of people with mohawks, tatts, singlets, piercings, and all sorts of other undesirable dress, not to mention undesirable behavior. Remember moshing? There was also PLENTY of beer. But there were no bouncers. And No trouble. Over the last 10 or so years I've seen ONE skirmish. It was over almost as soon as it began. The bogan perpetrator left on his own.
The people who frequent these kind of venues wouldn't even get past the door bouncers at somewhere like GBH, let alone get the chance to be kicked out.

 

[Pollux]

My experience tally's with TBs and others on here. Violence has been going on for ever. My rule has always been that if the venue needs a bouncer, then expect to find wankers inside.

I disagree with that statement...

I used to be a duty manager at the Chamberlain Hotel on Pitt St in the city, we might have had roughly 3 punchups in the time I worked there (nearly 2yrs), and never anything serious, usually a misunderstanding that escalated into a bit of push and shove, but we had a bouncer every night and 2 on weekends, primarily because it was (and may still well be) illegal for me as the manger to check IDs at the door, as I didn't hold a security licence. Our secuirty staff spent most of their night on ID checks, assisting with anyone asked to leave and picking up glasses...They also helped out with clearing the pub of patrons at closing time and then walked the staff to their cars.

As for escalting violence, there are many factors, alcohol may cause some incidents, but a general lack of repect for others among the latest generation of drinkers (18-21) seems to be one of the main issues.

 

[Bribie G]

Don't often drink in Australian Pubs but the Bigg Market in Newcastle on Tyne in the 60's was regarded as the worst place in Europe on a Saturday Night with dead bodies regularly found up alleys and in pub toilets. My only experience of pubs nowadays is a very occasional beer waiting for the bus in Cabooluture daytime hours or likewise a pint of Old Speckled at the Elephant and Wheelbarrow early afternoon.

 

[svyturys]

To my mind, the warning signs are:
* a dress code
* a bouncer at the door
* a DJ
* a cover-charge to get in
* big que at the bar with most people ordering RTD alcopops or shooters or some garbage like that...

Very well said, Caleb. And Polar Bear has also put his finger on it when he says,...

The people who frequent these kind of venues wouldn't even get past the door bouncers at somewhere like GBH, let alone get the chance to be kicked out.

Like Caleb I go to a pub to socialise and enjoy the beer. The very thing pubs are supposed to cater for.
I go to a club/pub to listen to the band, exactly what a venue is designed for. The correct venue gets the pub and club mixture right. Hear good music, drink good beer and meet people. Rare to see a bouncer at these places.

elbourne's dingiest little holes. These places were full of people with mohawks, tatts, singlets, piercings, and all sorts of other undesirable dress, not to mention undesirable behavior. Remember moshing? There was also PLENTY of beer. But there were no bouncers. And No trouble. Over the last 10 or so years I've seen ONE skirmish. It was over almost as soon as it began. The bogan perpetrator left on his own.

I agree with Polar Bear here. But I would note that there was more than just one substance consumed on the premises. My point here is that it is not just about the substance but the attitude or culture inherent in how you consume it. The so called "drinking culture" is not really drinking at all. Certainly not in the way we consume beer or wine. There is no respect for the drink that is being consumed. They are not drinking beer or wine, they are drinking ALCOHOL!

May as well mainline it for what it matters to them. This is the problem. Where this happens trouble follows.
Cheers

 

[bum]

Fair enough - not going to argue with the coppers about it, they would know. But ... there are a hell of a lot more venues and a hell of a lot more people in the city than there ever used to be.

Yeah. Melbourne also recently got new licensing laws which is what cops blame most of the higher frequency on. But they real problem, according to the cops I know, is not just more incidences due to more venues but apparently each incident is generally worse and harder to control if they happen to get there in time. More glassings, more stabbings, more people able to fight through the eau de capsicum.

All I know is that there is no way in hell I'd walk down King street any night of the week.

Svyturys, Drum and Bass is about 20 years old. If it was gonna blow up huge it would have happened by now, methinks.

 

[svyturys]

Svyturys, Drum and Bass is about 20 years old. If it was gonna blow up huge it would have happened by now, methinks.

Too true, but the blues bubbled for over 30 years before it exploded in England in the '60s. One never knows which style or what is going to emerge from the brew..and when.