Vic 2017 Xmas in July Case Swap

[technobabble66]

Hey Mofox. Glad you like! The intention wasn't to usurp the head brewer, more that I just thought you have kids, and I had the data/estimates from the last big brew, so thought I'd just throw that approximation together as a starting point [emoji1].
I hope that's ok! - I just remember it took me hours to get through all the guesstimates required to get my head around it and have a real recipe to follow for the Westy12 clone. Feel free to alter as you want!

Fwiw, melanoiden adds a Munich-like (or ovaltine?) type of maltiness. Whereas I think the caramelisation boil adds a more caramel-like maltiness. Probably a bit more like half-way between crystal and melanoiden in reality. Well, at least that's my impression.
I like that maltiness from melanoiden but it can "get in the way" of caramel-type flavas. You know your recipe, so best for you to decide. I sort of see it like a choice between roast-malty or roast-caramel. If you reckon Toby is more the former, I'd definitely go the melanoiden, but if it's more the latter (looks like it is) maybe avoid the melanoiden and go more Amber or Crystal.
Just my quick guesstimate [emoji6]

 

[technobabble66]

Partigyle the second runnings? [emoji185]

Edit: If we use 10-12L cubes, we might get several extra cubes out of the batch. Mind you, if we run another 100L of sparge, it might be more hassle than it's worth.

 

[technobabble66]

OK, re-did the recipe i posted last might, rounding up or down to the nearest kg:

Using 70% efficiency, target volume 500L, OG=1.079, FG=1.018 (yeast attenuation 75%), 44.9IBUs:

181kg grain total.

125kg MO
18kg Amber
8kg each of Brown, Choc, and Wheat (so totally should be oats!)
6kg Light Crystal (60 EBC)
3kg each of Roasted Barley & Chocolate wheat
2kg CaraAroma

300g Columbus + 150g EKG @FWH
250g EKG @20mins (calc'd as @40mins for cubes)
500g Chinook + 375g EKG into cubes (equivalent of 20g Chinook & 15g EKG into each cube)

dry hop as desired.

~500-550L Mash (fill the 2x 300L mash tuns to near capacity), 400L Sparge
----------------------------------

So i basically dropped the MO to 125kgs so it's 5 sacks; rounded up the Brown & Choc, as i thought they'd give more flavour and less harshness/astringency; rounded up the wheat to get the extra point of gravity so it hits 1.080; rounded up the Light crystal, because it's only light crystal; lowered the RB & Choc Wheat in compensation to raising the Brown & Choc; and raised the CaraAroma as it's only 200g more.
The other way to go would be to drop 1kg off the Brown & Choc, and raise the RB & Choc Wheat by a kilo - for a more sharp roasty finish i'd guess.

What do you think of those adjustments, Mofox, or the other stout-heads out there?


PS: Hey mofox, are you happy for me to keep throwing this stuff out there, or would you prefer to take it over from here on?
I'm happy either way

 

[technobabble66]

In terms of supplies, i just scanned the clever brewing site for options:

125kg MO (Bairds)
18kg Amber (Joe White)
8kg Brown (Bairds),
8kg Choc (Gladfields or Bairds)
8kg Wheat (Gladfields or Weyermann, or could use Dark Wheat from Weyermann?)
6kg Light Crystal (60 EBC) (Bairds (pale, EBC 105), Gladfields (light, EBC 49))
3kg Roasted Barley (Bairds or Gladfield)
3kg Chocolate wheat (Weyermann; or Gladfields for Roasted Wheat)
2kg CaraAroma (Weyermann)


The main choices seem to be:
1) Which lighter crystal to go with, ~100 or 50 EBC?
2) Which roasted/kilned wheat to go with, Chocolate wheat (1100 EBC) or Roasted wheat (532 EBC)?
3) Joe White Amber - I've not used JW malts so i could be out of line here, but is it worth looking at swapping this to Dingemann's Biscuit instead?

Other possible choices spring to mind:
4) Use Wheat malt or (instant) oats? (this might be moot, as i might be the only one keen for oats ). What about subbing in Rye? h34r:
5) Assuming wheat, use plain wheat malt or use Dark wheat malt to push the deeper flavours?


What does the Head Brewer think about all those options?

It obviously depends heavily on what CB is happy to supply in bulk, so this is all really for Martin to advise on what's best from that end (plus his opinion on the likes of JW amber vs Biscuit, etc). However, i thought it start some conversation in that direction as well. So i hope that's all ok.

Should we start a separate thread for all this, or start a PM chain?

 

[MartinOC]

CB can supply all of that lot (depending on current stocks at the time - might need to order in extra just before it goes ahead).

We don't have much Dingemans Biscuit in stock & our distributor isn't bringing any more Ding's stuff in anyway.

I'm generally not a great fan of JW stuff, but their Amber is pretty consistent quality & I'd have no qualms using it. I was already thinking along the lines of Mofox's suggestion to just buy a sack of it & flog-off the excess to whoever wants it.

 

[Midnight Brew]

I'm really enjoying the recipe development process and evolution in this thread. I noticed it contains that mystical foe, Amber malt haha.

Dark wheat or oats sounds awesome! Columbus, Chinook and EKG :icon_drool2:

 

[technobabble66]

I'm really enjoying the recipe development process and evolution in this thread. I noticed it contains that mystical foe, Amber malt haha.

Dark wheat or oats sounds awesome! Columbus, Chinook and EKG :icon_drool2:

Time to get back onto the Amber horse, MB.

And yeah, why use wheat when you can use Daaaaaaark Wheeeeeat?! Or better still, oats! [emoji1]

 

[technobabble66]

CB can supply all of that lot (depending on current stocks at the time - might need to order in extra just before it goes ahead).

We don't have much Dingemans Biscuit in stock & our distributor isn't bringing any more Ding's stuff in anyway.

I'm generally not a great fan of JW stuff, but their Amber is pretty consistent quality & I'd have no qualms using it. I was already thinking along the lines of Mofox's suggestion to just buy a sack of it & flog-off the excess to whoever wants it.

That's great, Martin.
And if you're confident with the JW Amber that's definitely good enough for me! That's one option sorted [emoji6]

 

[mofox1]

Time to get back onto the Amber horse, MB.

And yeah, why use wheat when you can use Daaaaaaark Wheeeeeat?! Or better still, oats! [emoji1]

Lol. You and oats.

Looked back in my notes and I actually used Simpsons light crystal, which is 40L rather than the 60 I listed above. So for you EBC folk thats 80 - 100ish. Roasted Wheat was breiss, hitting up at 550L (>1000EBC). Agree with the Joe White sentiments... have had hit and miss quality before, but if Martin reckons their Amber is okay then that's fine by me.

Probably time for that recipe thread Mr OC suggested earlier...

Haven't had much time to play with this, kudos to TB for the recipe scaling. Hopefully workload will calm down in a couple of days... (Yeah - and monkey's might fly outta my butt).

 

[technobabble66]

So that resolves some things to:
1) Light Crystal, the 100EBC stuff from Bairds
2) Chocolate wheat (1100 EBC) from Weyermann looks like the closest to the Briess roasted wheat.
3) Joe White Amber

Leaving:
4) Looks like it'll be Wheat malt <_<. What about subbing in Rye? h34r:
5) Assuming wheat, use plain wheat malt or use Dark wheat malt to push the deeper flavours?

What are your thoughts on those last 2, monkeybutt Mofox? :lol:

 

[malt junkie]

Have spare bucket (10-12kg) of dark Best wheat, happy to contribute, other wise I'll be into some wheat beers in a BIG way soon, and really it's a little cold for that.

 

[micbrew]

Sooo will the hop schedule be available at the case swap or will it be BYO ???

Have we confirmed what we are brewing on yet ?

 

[technobabble66]

Hops supplies are yet to be confirmed, so a bit early to tell. Given martin will probably be organizing and has to answer to a higher power, he might be a little more constrained than Jesse usually was, but we'll see what he can arrange.

Not sure where the gear is up to. It should be safe to assume idzys gear is good to go. That covers the 600L kettle and 2x 300L mash tuns. The big question is whether husky is rocking up with his new setup. And what heating options we'll have. And if we'll have something to put the sparge water into.
There's an equipment thread for this somewhere [emoji6]

 

[Curly79]

I'll bring my big gas bottle and Mongolian burner and stand again.

 

[technobabble66]

That's fantastic. That huge bottle of yours especially saved a lot of faffing around last time!

 

[micbrew]

I didn't know Martin is a god fearing man !

in relation to gas ...can we ensure we have some for breakfast this time around !!!

 

[Mardoo]

I'm sure after Friday and Saturday there will be plenty of gas at breakfast.

 

[micbrew]

is that methane Madhu :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:

 

[TheWiggman]

I've got 2000W worth of HERMS and a pump plus my bag of tricks

 

[husky]

Hops supplies are yet to be confirmed, so a bit early to tell. Given martin will probably be organizing and has to answer to a higher power, he might be a little more constrained than Jesse usually was, but we'll see what he can arrange.

Not sure where the gear is up to. It should be safe to assume idzys gear is good to go. That covers the 600L kettle and 2x 300L mash tuns. The big question is whether husky is rocking up with his new setup. And what heating options we'll have. And if we'll have something to put the sparge water into.
There's an equipment thread for this somewhere [emoji6]

Would like to give mine a crack if required. Let me know as otherwise might not see use for a while! Just waiting to find a couple of big enough burners to boil 7-800L but will be sorted by July.