Very Weird Ferment/cold Break Problem?

[floppinab]

Well I AG'ed up my NSW Xmas Case Swap offering, a Nthn English Brown. All looked good, slightly higher OG than expected (1051) but no biggy, no chilled.

Cultered up my yeast, Irish Ale, something a bit different, 2 litre starter, chilled it down, poured off the "beer", up to room temp and pitch.

6 hours later, plenty of life in the fermenter, we're away. Not a strong ferment but most of mine rarely are, nothing to worry about.
Bloody tap is leaking so a little saucer goes under that, tasted it a few times, hmmmmm seems pretty sugary for a fermenting beer........got a krausen, plenty of fermenting smells, don't worry, she'll be right

SO, 5 days later, time to check the SG. Same as the OG :blink: ?????? What is going on. First thought is a dodgy hydro, I've got another one and try that, yep pretty much the same and there is no mistaking the taste, pretty sweet wort.
Open up the fermenter, yep krausen has fallen back looks pretty normal. WTF??? You can usually see a yeast trub forming at the bottom of the fermenter, there's nothing like that this time and hang on, looking harder is that a thin line of yeast half way down the fermenter????

SO, pretty obviously what happened is that I've got what appears to be a very thick break/something around sitting from the bottom to around half way up the fermenter that the yeast has not been able to penetrate........the result, top half fermented, bottom half not. Quick stir with a sterilised spoon, SG now around 1031. OK SO.

I've down around 5 or so AG's and have noticed with the last couple there appears to be a huge amount of thickish lightly coloured, what I can only assume is cold break, enough in this case to stop the yeast getting through to ferment the wort. I use Kopperfloc in the kettle but that doesn't appear to effect this stuff. I've filtered the last brew I did so it hasn't effected the final result but if it's bad enough to disrupt the ferment like it has this time I need to do something to at least minimize it.

 

[mfdes]

I use a glass fermenter and I've also occasionally noticed that the yeast can form a layer halfway up the fermenter with no action below it. As I can see through glass I give the fermenter a jiggle when I notice this and things always work OK.

MFS

 

[dr K]

I find it odd that whilst you no-chill you also observe cold break.
None the less if you are going to no-chill then I suggest a decent whirlpool would be of assistance.
I am not going to debate the merits or otherwise of no-chilling but must point out that a fast chill will give a much better flocculation of protein which will give rise to a coarser and more densely packed trub.
It may well be (this is conjecture as I have always chilled) that what you describe as cold break is in fact protein and polyphenol still in suspension.

K

 

[Kai]

I usually get an inch or so of break material in the bottom of the jerry after running clear hot wort into it and leaving to cool overnight.

 

[Tim F]

How long and how hard are you boiling for?

 

[floppinab]

How long and how hard are you boiling for?

At least 75 mins Tim, sometimes 90, this brew would've been 75. I've got a reasonable gas burner so it goes pretty hard. I'm beginning to think it's something in the mash letting a lot of insoluble proteins through???

 

[Tim F]

What kind of mash schedule do you have - just a single infusion? What temp?

 

[newguy]

Do you aerate or add any yeast nutrient? I use a chiller and get a lot of cold break, but my fermentation is so vigorous that the break material swirls around rather violently. When I had issues with low attenuation it was due to low/no aeration.

 

[floppinab]

What kind of mash schedule do you have - just a single infusion? What temp?

The two brews that have produced a lot of this material have been single 60 min. infusion at around 67/68 deg with a mashout at around 73 odd and then a single batch sparge at around the same temp. The brew previous to this one that had a similar problem was an APA but the high level of material didn't "hold up" the ferment like this latest brew has. I crash chilled the primary in that one and there would have been a good 4 to 5 inches of material sitting in the bottom of the fermenter prior to filtering and kegging.

Both times base grain has been JW TradAle, I've added a bit of Gypsum to the mash in both cases.

 

[Tim F]

How much of the break material is left behind in your kettle after you fill your fermenter? Are you whirlpooling and leaving it to settle before emptying?

 

[floppinab]

How much of the break material is left behind in your kettle after you fill your fermenter? Are you whirlpooling and leaving it to settle before emptying?

There always seems to be a reasonable amount of break material in the kettle. I whirlpool and leave for at least 5 mins, sometimes 10 before draining the kettle.

I've just pitched an ESB I've had sitting in a cube for a few weeks and the wort from the cube is showing the same symptoms, a thick sludgy like material that looks largely opaque (hard to tell in what is a fairly dark ESB, but does not present the typical light tan colour of break material) and does not settle out of the wort (at room temps) but suspends itself in it.

On the last brew I did at the top of the post I crash chilled the primary and it largely settled out but as before a good 5 or 6 inches of material at the bottom of the fermenter. I didn't want to filter this brew but given the amount of muck in there was forced to. Resultant brew looks and tastes quite OK.

Very weird.

EDIT :
Just looking back through my brewing logs of the 6 or 7 AG's I've done one common denomintor in this problem has been Joe White Ale malt, when I've used Wey or JW Pils I haven't seen this problem. I'm not confirming/suggesting an issue with the malt but it is one common denominator.