Using The Kettle Trub

[Nick JD]

Hey Folks. I was just reducing the filtered kettle trub of a batch of weizen and thought I'd take some photos in case anyone else was thinking of doing it.

Usually, I leave behind about a liter of crud, I reckon half of which at least is precious wort. That's a bit of a waste - but because it takes ages to filter the break material out of the good wort - you've probably exposed it to some nasties, and your yeast has only just been added, so pouring it into the fermenter after it's been sitting on the bench for 30 minutes is not wise.

Here's how I separate the break from the wort. Just a sieve lined with swiss voile in a bowl.

All of the runnings that come out of that are poured into a big, shallow frypan (the bigger the better).

I added a tbsp of Manuka Honey, about 200g of plain sugar (I wan't the weizen to be over 6% alc, the fermenter is currently 1.055) and a pinch of citric acid and bought up to the boil.

After about 15 minutes of hard boiling it's starting to foam up. We're waiting for bigger bubbles and a shift in colour.

The colour is starting to darken a little (the base wort was < 4 EBC, very pale).

 

[Nick JD]

This is what I mean by bigger bubbles. A lot of the water has eveporated by now and it's starting to get thick like golden syrup.

It's important to watch it closely at this stage because it gets darker quick. I wanted just a bit of colour and caramelisation because I think weizens are nice with some caramel hints in the aftertaste.

That's about where we're at.

A tin is lined with some foil and it's poured in. This part is difficult because as it's pouring it cools and goes hard in mid air and stops pouring.

I cover it with gladwrap and let it cool to about 30C, and then put it in the freezer til it's rock hard. I add the whole lump to the fermenter once the yeast has started up - it dissolves over a few hours in there. The taste is just amazing - super sweet (from the sucrose breaking into the sweeter, shorter sugars) and super bitter from all that wort.

 

[Wolfy]

Usually, I leave behind about a liter of crud, I reckon half of which at least is precious wort. That's a bit of a waste - but because it takes ages to filter the break material out of the good wort

I tip what is left in to a sanitised 2l plastic container, put the lid on and put it in the fridge.
After it has cooled and all the curd has settled, I decant the clear wort on the top into another bottle to save for yeast-starters.

 

[Sammus]

I suck up the 3 cents worth of ingredients lost and save my self a couple hours of screwing around at the same time

 

[Bribie G]

I tip what is left in to a sanitised 2l plastic container, put the lid on and put it in the fridge.
After it has cooled and all the curd has settled, I decant the clear wort on the top into another bottle to save for yeast-starters.

+1

Fortunately I have some Schott Bottles that a certain Toowoomba Scientist gave me (and others) so they are ideal for the job.



However Nick's idea would be great for making beer lollies to suck on the train :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:

 

[Nick JD]

I suck up the 3 cents worth of ingredients lost and save my self a couple hours of screwing around at the same time

Good for you.

 

[Nick JD]

I tip what is left in to a sanitised 2l plastic container, put the lid on and put it in the fridge.
After it has cooled and all the curd has settled, I decant the clear wort on the top into another bottle to save for yeast-starters.

Does it bug you that your starter will be bittered and flavoured with possibly a different hop even though it's only a few hundred mls?

 

[TidalPete]

Does it bug you that your starter will be bittered and flavoured with possibly a different hop even though it's only a few hundred mls?

TidalPete shakes head sadly. :huh:

TP

 

[Wolfy]

Does it bug you that your starter will be bittered and flavoured with possibly a different hop even though it's only a few hundred mls?

If I pitched the full starter (which are usually 2L for ale yeast) I'm sure there would be noticeable problems, especially since there are usually bigger differences with the recipe than just hops.
However, I always decant off the spent beer and pitch only the yeast slurry, so none of those flavours (or yeast off-flavours from growing them warm) should impact the final beer.
BribieG's glass Schott Bottles look like they'd do a nice job compared to the old plastic bottles that I use.

 

[Nick JD]

If I pitched the full starter (which are usually 2L for ale yeast) I'm sure there would be noticeable problems, especially since there are usually bigger differences with the recipe than just hops.
However, I always decant off the spent beer and pitch only the yeast slurry, so none of those flavours (or yeast off-flavours from growing them warm) should impact the final beer.
BribieG's glass Schott Bottles look like they'd do a nice job compared to the old plastic bottles that I use.

My starters have always been just unhopped LDME, so I allow for them and chuck the whole starter in. Never thought to discard the starter wort - seems like a waste.

 

[Nick JD]

TidalPete shakes head sadly. :huh:

TP

Nick JD slowly raises middle finger .

 

[bradsbrew]

Nick JD slowly raises middle finger .

Only to have it snapped off and shoved up his a$%e by..........

 

[Pollux]

Nick, Bribie is in the NoChill camp, this means he can use the wort in the jar as a starter and turf the whole thing in if he wants to as it's the same wort as the batch That's what I do personally.

 

[Bribie G]

Does it bug you that your starter will be bittered and flavoured with possibly a different hop even though it's only a few hundred mls?

Seeing as I no chill, the saved wort goes back into the self same brew as the starter. Handy because:

• The brew no chills in a 20 / 24L Willow cube
• Then it gets fermented in a 'normal' fermenter
• Then it's run into another 20/24L Willow cube for cold crashing

So allowing for yeast sludge at the bottom, it's good to have a primary fermentation of about 25 litres so there's a choc full Willow for cold crashing / lagering. That extra bit of saved wort plugs the gap.

Edit: as Pollux said

 

[boobiedazzler]

Penny Pinching for a few cents and using starter wort in a brew is crazy. Just tip it out once your yeast has multiplied !

I love the idea of reserving leftovers for yeast starters in future brews, but stuffed if Im going to introduce a random flavour into my next beer by including the spent liqor when I pitch.

Although One day I would like to have enough reserved run-off in containers to throw all together and make a full batch. I would call it "Rob" (or Random Orphan ******* Ale).

Is there a BJCP category for bubble & squeak ?

 

[Nick JD]

Just to clarify the crossed wires here: this thread is about making a candi syrup with left over wort and using it in the same brew.

 

[manticle]

using starter wort in a brew is crazy.

Um - why?

I use my starter wort in every brew I make - I just treat my starters the same way I do my beer so I avoid oxidation and off flavours.

What Nick is doing is not dissimilar from wort caramelisation used for some English styles - he just does it at the end (mine is from the whole, unbittered wort pre boil)

 

[Nick JD]

.

Creepy cartoon dude.

 

[Fents]

Just to clarify the crossed wires here: this thread is about making a candi syrup with left over wort and using it in the same brew.

phew lucky that was clarified cause i thought this was just a tight ass thread.

 

[bradsbrew]

Just to clarify the crossed wires here: this thread is about making a candi syrup with left over wort and using it in the same brew.

Nick do you invert it? I have used excess wort to add after fermentation has started in belgian Dubbels and Trippels but always throw in some citric during boil down. I once boiled down 9L to 4L and added at day2 of ferment. Has worked a treat.

Cheers