Using Kits In Place Of Lme In Extract Brewing?

[beerandgarden]

Here in NZ kits are such Coopers Original series are cheaper than cans of plain unhopped LME. So I was wondering if they would work ok for extract brewing. I've read somewhere on a forum that if you boil them, you boil off the isohops, it that correct? Would you then have the equivalent of an unhopped LME? Or maybe even the hops can be used to advantage, reducing the amount of additional bittering hops required. Very interested in hearing your opinions & experience on this. Thanks, Aidan.

 

[pimpsqueak]

I'll be brewing a stout in a few weeks time, using a can of coopers stout as a base but will also be adding dme. It's supposed to have an IBU of 43 or so, so I will only be doing a small amount of bittering additions in the boil to make it up to around 60.

 

[Pennywise]

Boiling the kit will drive off the flavour & aroma, but you'll still have the same bitterness in the kit, so as long as you adjust for that you should be fine. I'd also stick to the more bland kits, like Cerveza, Darught, or the Lager or something like that. What's dry extract cost wise?

 

[J Grimmer]

Hi Aidan, do a search in the forum for the toucan thread, i have just found they need more time in the bottle to mature, and some can have tang, also a better yeast like US05 or S04 seem to work a better. I like this for a dark beers as well.

 

[Bribie G]

In my partials days I used kits almost exclusively for the extract part of the brew. As suggested by PW, use a bland kit which you can 'layer' flavours on top of. The disadvantages of extract are that, if you only have access to slow moving stock (for example if you are in a country area with a small LHBS etc) then liquid malt extract can be a bit skunked by the time you buy it. Kits move faster and are fresher, usually.

If you want to get into stovetop partials using equipment you probably already have, then a minimash with up to 2K of grain and a kit should get you pointed in the right direction.

 

[beerandgarden]

Boiling the kit will drive off the flavour & aroma, but you'll still have the same bitterness in the kit, so as long as you adjust for that you should be fine. I'd also stick to the more bland kits, like Cerveza, Darught, or the Lager or something like that. What's dry extract cost wise?

Well if I buy it locally it's around $9 for a 500g bag. Online it's $12.50/kg + shipping costs, let's say $15/kg. I can buy a 1.7kg tin of Coopers Original series for $13 locally (equiv of 1.36kg DME using 4/5 rule of thumb). Works out around $9.50/kg DME equiv, so the DME is about 60% more expensive. Locally they also have 1.5kg tins of Blackrock LME for $16 which works out at $13.30/kg DME equiv (40% more expensive than the Coopers kits).

How long of a boil is reqd. to drive off flavour and aroma? Any disadvantages of boiling the no-boil kits, e.g. added harshness, darkening, etc? Is there any info available on what hops varieties are used in the Coopers kits (so that it could be determined if the built in hops flavours are beneficial or detrimental to a given recipe)? Or are the hops flavours light enough that there is no need to boil them off?

 

[Bribie G]

I may be under a false impression but I feel that in Australia and probably NZ as well, extract brewing is not a huge thing, in the same way as the USA and to an extent the UK. The market seems to be divided between kits (huge) and All Grain (substantial and growing) with extracts sort of wedged in the middle but not too many doing it.

My theory is that because we have had such a strong kit market here - mostly thanks to Coopers but also the likes of Morgans - most brewers have got into the craft that way then go on to AG if they are keen enough. So with extract brewing not all that common, supplies are not as reliable or plentiful as the USA and can suffer from freshness issues.

In the USA on the other hand they have a 'weak' kits market and most brewers have got into the craft via malt extract, hence the big emphasis on extracts in books such as Brewing Classic Styles and How to Brew, and big suppliers such as Briess.

The UK is a medium position between those two extremes as they do have good extract suppliers such as EDME but have also had a kits market for yonks such as Tom Caxton and EDME, although Coopers is now popular there.

I'd definitely be confident about ditching the M.E. and using the kits unless you are trying to replicate an exact M.E. recipe say from Brewing Classic Styles etc.

 

[Pennywise]

Gees, don't mind chargin' do they

 

[mwd]

I don't think Coopers tell you which hop is in each kit. I have used the Canadian Blonde and Mexican as bases for toucans etc. They are so lightly hopped so as no real need for boiling. I see you only have access to the original range of Coopers kits so you are a little bit limited. Either the Lager or Pale Ale are fairly low on bitterness so maybe stick with those two and boil them for about 30 minutes to drive off the flavour and aroma. I think it may be Pride of Ringwood in the pale ale can but not 100% sure.

I like doing toucans they are full of flavour and I like good bitterness but they are not particularly cheap to make unless the cans are on special that week.

edit: The Stout and Dark Ale together make a superb brew with very little needed to be added and it seems the Stout cans must be slow moving as they are most commonly on special

 

[going down a hill]

I don't think Coopers tell you which hop is in each kit. I have used the Canadian Blonde and Mexican as bases for toucans etc. They are so lightly hopped so as no real need for boiling. I see you only have access to the original range of Coopers kits so you are a little bit limited. Either the Lager or Pale Ale are fairly low on bitterness so maybe stick with those two and boil them for about 30 minutes to drive off the flavour and aroma. I think it may be Pride of Ringwood in the pale ale can but not 100% sure.

I like doing toucans they are full of flavour and I like good bitterness but they are not particularly cheap to make unless the cans are on special that week.

edit: The Stout and Dark Ale together make a superb brew with very little needed to be added and it seems the Stout cans must be slow moving as they are most commonly on special

:icon_offtopic: Speaking of, I bottled the dark/stout toucan last week because of your recommendations in another thread. It was tasting fantastic when I drunk the sample whilst bottling. I added 25g of fuggles at 10 mins and it is a take no prisoners kick ass stout. Thanks for the heads up Tropical.