Using An Urn For Brew In A Bag - Tutorial

[Bribie G]

TB, I used a 24L Bruheat Boiler in the UK for AG and like you say with an extra cheap vessel or two you can turn out good brews with far less capital expenditure than a 3V system.

http://www.thebrewmart.com/bruheat-mashing...er-i602071.html

In the UK Bruheat supply bags, not for BIAB as such but for easy grain removal so you can whack the wort back in immediately and use it as a boiler. They even do wort recirculation rotating sparge arm systems etc. As we know, 40L gives the option of full water volume dead simple brewing but when you get down to 30L all bets are off

Interesting reading TB.

 

[under]

Im back boys. 8 months break. Nearly finished all my brews I had made (275+ longies ), with a lilttle helping hand from the relos.

Really thinking about moving over to AG after reading this. Only one thing. Im still bottling, no room for kegs. This ok?

And is the crown as good as the birko with the mod?

 

[Bribie G]

Welcome back. I BIABed for 9 months and bottled, before going to kegs at the end of July. What you store it in doesn't matter, once you have hoisted the bag and started the boil it's the same as any other AG method.

Get a Birko, you know you really want one B) B)

 

[under]

Im not liking the idea of the exposed element in the birko, and im not liking the idea of the slow/non boil in the crown without the mod.

 

[Phoney]

Im not liking the idea of the exposed element in the birko

Well you have two simple options:

1) Heat up your water to strike temperature, turn the urn off, then fit the bag, dump your grain in, close the lid and insulate.
or
2) Buy a cheap 10" stainless steel colander that fits over your element and protects your bag like this:

I havent done enough BIAB's to really figure out which method is the preferred yet, I think option 2 might suit me better. From what ive learnt so far;

1) pro's: The bag never gets a chance to touch a hot spot, temperature stays consistent throughout the urn.
cons: If insulation is inadequate, temperature can drop below your required mash temperature. Only by a degree or three, but not quite perfect. Also, you have to raise the bag slightly to turn the urn back on for mashout.

2) pro's: Thermostat can be set to ~66C to ensure mash temperature doesnt drop below par. You dont need to touch the bag for mashout.
cons: heat "pocket" can be formed under the grain bag making temperature uneven in the urn - mixing the grains (in an up-and-down fashion) with your mash paddle at regular intervals seems to avoid this though.

Either way it's not really a problem - just something to be aware of.

 

[RobB]

Well you have two simple options:

1) Heat up your water to strike temperature, turn the urn off, then fit the bag, dump your grain in, close the lid and insulate.
or
2) Buy a cheap 10" stainless steel colander that fits over your element and protects your bag like this:

I use a colander in my Birko. Actually, it's a cheap stainless mixing bowl which I drilled full of holes, but it's the same theory. I use it because I like to include a mash-out which seems to give me significantly better efficiency. I was also a bit paranoid about snagging the bottom of my bag on the element, so it gives me extra piece of mind.

I have tried step mash using just the urn, but I found that the bag, grain and colander were trapping a layer of hot water which no amount of stirring would fix. My temps were all over the place, so now I step up using additions from the kitchen kettle.

I love the BIAB/urn combo. Throw in a timer switch and it's an easy way to fit a brew into an otherwise full day.

 

[MarkBastard]

Nice thread Bribie.

I am undecided as to whether I should get a Crown or a Birko. Having a concealed element is certainly a plus from a cleaning and general use perspective, but what I'd love to see is a genuine comparison between the performance of a Birko and a Crown that's had the boil-dry removed.

ie how long does each take to get 30L of water to boiling temp?

 

[Phoney]

ie how long does each take to get 30L of water to boiling temp?

From what temperature? Ive got a birko and the first time I filled it up with cold tap water and switched it on full; 45 mins later it still wasnt quite boiling. Now I fill it up with 'hot' water from the laundry sink tap and it only takes 10 - 15 mins to get it from ~40C to 68C and only another 5 - 10 mins to go from mashout (78C) to a good rolling boil.

 

[MarkBastard]

As long as they both start at the same temperature I'm not fussed.

I just wanna see what the difference is. If the Birko is only 5% better then I'd go the Crown with the insulation on the outside any day, know what I mean?

But if the Crown is literally incapable of some things as it would appear reading some opinions, I'd go for the Birko.

 

[Bribie G]

I invariably use hot water out of the solar and often, this time of year, it is just about on strike temperature anyway. My old kid's sleeping bag I've had for 10 years and a chinese feather doonah keep the mash lagged efficiently enough for a 2 degree drop over 90 minutes so I have no need to apply heat, therefore the exposed element doesn't worry me.

 

[MarkBastard]

Fair enough, what about cleaning though?

How long do you have to wait after hitting strike temp to put the bag in? I imagine the element remains hot for a little while.

 

[bowie in space]

Mark

check my post "cleaning my urn"

sorry don't know how to attach link

Bowie

 

[bullsneck]

I see that many people have replaced the tap on the Crown Urn with a ball valve.

Would someone be able to post a link to what I'd be after, please?

Just picked up my Crown tonight, so shiny!

Can't wait to brew!

 

[bullsneck]

I see that many people have replaced the tap on the Crown Urn with a ball valve.

Would someone be able to post a link to what I'd be after, please?

Just picked up my Crown tonight, so shiny!

Can't wait to brew!

Bump

 

[Cocko]

Hey Bullsneck,

Not that I have done it myself but I would be looking at something like this linkage

I have used this and similar for 2 weldless fitting and worx a no dramas...

Others will have better info but thats my 2c!

 

[leiothrix]

I got my stuff from beerbelly

I've got a stainless pickup tube connected to a bulkhead fitting, then three piece ball valve and cam lock disconnects for the hose.

No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.

Rob.

 

[Bribie G]

Just an update, on my Birko after about 50 brews the tap has failed, because I have religiously taken it apart, cleaned and reassembled it, and I have cross threaded and destroyed the thread on the plastic upper part of the tap where it screws into the lower cast metal tap body. Nothing wrong with the tap body itself but the other bit is going to cost me $45 from a Birko Service Agent. Bit rude - that should cover the cost of a ball lock 'straight through' tap so that's what I'll be getting. However until now I've had no problems with the Birko tap.

Anyone dismantling the tap on a regular basis I would recommend getting a little tube of tap lubricant (from sponsors - it's great for servicing your fonts and other taps as well) and use a bit of that on the threads so you never need to force anything.

 

[Phoney]

Excellent BribieG, I was just looking at my tap yesterday wondering how long it would last, ill add thread lube to my shopping list.

Ive also been thinking recently (and maybe this deserves a thread on it's own?) of the sorts of modifications I could add to the Birko urn.

Firstly id love to have a mounted digital thermometer with a temperature probe that protrudes down through the lid into the centre of the urn so that I can keep an eye on the mash temperature without having to undo the doonah, take the lid off and stick my thermometer in there - which no doubt loses heat each time I need to do this. This shouldnt be too difficult to acheive it's just a matter of finding the right thermometer.

Secondly what id really love is an automated mash paddle fitted to the top of the lid that stirs the grains during the entire mash to further improve efficiency. Sort of like what Zwickel has done here, but with the paddles perhaps made out of rubber so as not to get the bag into a tangled & torn up mess.

Thoughts?

 

[MarkBastard]

It'd be nice if you could build a false bottom like in the pictures above but have some form of pump circulating the hot water from under the false bottom all around the urn etc.

 

[brando]

The photo shows bag lifted off the element of Birko urn after mash has been completed. Here I'm raising the temp from 65 to 80 degrees, to then lower the bag again for mashout then sparge. Usually takes about 10-15 mins to reach 80 degrees (which then drops back to about 77 degrees when bag lowered).

As can be seen, the bag is not fully out of the wort, and I'm wondering if I could be risking getting astringency from the contact at high temp.

Any thoughts?