Extracts in an Urn

[GuyQLD]

Should the air be squeezed out of the cube once the wort is transferred into it for cooling?

Also when transferring from cube to fermenter, the wort needs to have oxygen for the yeast, so would splashing into the fermenter at that point be beneficial?


Sorry to hijack thread, looking at biab myself soon.

Short answer - yes to both.

 

[bum]

why not give BIAB a go

I can think of several reasons - all of them to do with really fundamental stuff he needs to learn first and it is a really good idea to learn them with kits and then extracts first.

I know there's a tonne of guys here who have skipped all that. There used to be a tonne of process related discussion here before that was the default progression. I think the two are very closely related.

 

[Econwatson]

Yeah I'd like to run through the brew with my urn using an extract first since there is a little less I have to worry about initially.

Ah, I thought that aeration was a good thing since it allowed the yeast to react better? Or is that only aeration after the wort has cooled?

Cooling looks like it's going to be a problem for me, wort chillers look pretty expensive! Maybe the cubing method is best.

Is the general idea with no-chill to put the wort somewhere infection free as quick as possible and let the heat dissipate, then put it in the fermenter?

Would I be able to get a cube from a camping store like Aussie Disposals?

Thankyou!

 

[Helles]

Yeah I'd like to run through the brew with my urn using an extract first since there is a little less I have to worry about initially.

Ah, I thought that aeration was a good thing since it allowed the yeast to react better? Or is that only aeration after the wort has cooled?

Cooling looks like it's going to be a problem for me, wort chillers look pretty expensive! Maybe the cubing method is best.

Is the general idea with no-chill to put the wort somewhere infection free as quick as possible and let the heat dissipate, then put it in the fermenter?

Would I be able to get a cube from a camping store like Aussie Disposals?

Thankyou!

Yes Aussie Disposals are pretty cheap compared to Bunnings Kmart Etc if you have 1 near you
Cube/ jerry can about $12 from Aussie Disposals ( might of been a sale)

 

[Econwatson]

Thanks!

My urn was modified with a ball lock which I am guessing makes it very easy to attach a hose to, is garden hose sufficient to transfer with or should I get some pipe that is food grade. Wouldn't even know where to look for food grade hose!

 

[Helles]

Thanks!

My urn was modified with a ball lock which I am guessing makes it very easy to attach a hose to, is garden hose sufficient to transfer with or should I get some pipe that is food grade. Wouldn't even know where to look for food grade hose!

Food Grade !!
Masters have food Grade hose
Or the local Home Brew Shop

Edit : silicon hose would be best from LHBS

 

[bum]

Silicon hose from a HB shop is easiest.

Do you mind if I really strongly suggest you stick to doing kits for a bit while you do some more reading? Particularly of older threads? It just seems there is some really important stuff you haven't come across just yet.

 

[Econwatson]

I'm happy to take any suggestions on board, especially from somebody so respected in the community!

The thing is, I like to do something different each time I make beer, even if it's just something slight. First kit I made I changed out the yeast, second kit I made a Toucan. Is there any other things you could suggest I do to make it more interesting if I'm using kits. Maybe try making Dr Smurto's Golden Ale, with the kit version?

I'd just like to get more involved with the brewing process, like when I made my first ever brew (which was an extract), it makes it very exciting!

 

[bum]

I'm happy to take any suggestions on board, especially from somebody so respected in the community!

Ahaha! If this isn't sarcasm then it should be. If it is then good one.

I hope you don't see my suggestion as being overly critical. I really enjoy seeing your enthusiasm and I'd hate to see it not get translated into genuine skill.

If all you want to do is make somewhat-better-than-good-enough-beer really quickly then, yeah, going AG now might be a good idea. If you want to make great beer (which I don't feel I am able to do yet) then you need to get a handle on everything and you can't do that by jumping in at the deep end. Everyone says "Oh, BIAB - it's easy as shit. Don't worry about learning stuff. Just wet some grain. Beer." No. You need to learn stuff.

The thing is, I like to do something different each time I make beer, even if it's just something slight.

Same here. I've never made the same beer twice. Never made a beer where I haven't used a new ingredient. Never even made two beers of the same style in a row. It has it's downsides (especially for AG brewing - makes it hard to dial your gear in) but keeps things interesting for sure.

Is there any other things you could suggest I do to make it more interesting if I'm using kits.

I guess my suggestion is not about making things interesting in the short term but rather making things amazing for you in the long run. But there is plenty of room to play with kit and bits brewing to make things interesting - spec grain and hop combinations (in tandem with different kits) make for an almost limitless playground. Yeah, the beer may not beer as good as a beer made by a great AG brewer but it can still be really enjoyable and you learn some of the things that might make you that great AG guy.

Maybe try making Dr Smurto's Golden Ale, with the kit version?

I made that a while back now and it was very well received by everyone who drank it. Only beer anyone has ever offered to buy from me, in fact. I gave it to them, naturally - and lots of it because it wasn't my cup of beer but that is still one I would recommend you do. It covers lots of really important stuff in brewing solid beers and if you can find a copy of DrS's original instructions then your future beers will thank you.

I'd just like to get more involved with the brewing process, like when I made my first ever brew (which was an extract), it makes it very exciting!

I really don't want to dampen your enthusiasm at all - and don't let me - but big mistakes will probably make a bigger impact than I ever could. Research is key. And please don't feel like you can't be involved in the process with kit brewing - there is so much you can do to change a kit with bits - and it is all fun.

But if you do feel the call of AG now, see if you can jump in on a local brewer's brew day because it will really help.

 

[Econwatson]

No sarcasm intended!

Thanks for the response. With a lot of hobbies I start I tend to take things too quickly, get in over my head and then stop when things get a bit much, I'd like brewing to be a hobby that I really stick with, so I think taking it slow would be a good idea.

I'll check out Dr. Smurto's Golden Ale, Kit version, it will at least give me a chance to give my urn a go!

 

[bum]

Hmm...personally, I'd look at doing it following the more "standard" k&b process (spec grain in a pot/similar then drain, stovetop boil in wort/grain liquor for hops, mix everything else in the fermenter). Using the urn for a kit beer will still put you in the position where you have the cooling issue.

What I would strongly recommend you do with the urn now is a dry (wet) run for when you do your first full-volume brew. How long does it take the urn to get X amount or water to strike temp? How long can it hold a desired mash temp? (Neither of the first two are very useful for extract brewing but it is better to find out when you don't have, say, $40 worth of ingredients riding on the outcome.) How long does it take to get to a boil? What sort of boil-off can you expect? Does the urn produce a suitable rolling boil? How are you going to chill/no-chill? Tonnes of stuff to play around with and work out how you think you'll like to brew.

 

[thedragon]

Mate, you'll learn more by attending a brew demo at g&g or by helping out an experienced brewer on brew day and asking questions as the day progresses than you will through reading.

The reading part is important, and you need to do it, but as a new brewer, a demo will really accelerate your learning curve. It's also much more enjoyable hanging around talking about brewing with someone that knows what they are doing than it is reading technical stuff.

Dry (wet) run using your new setup... Great idea, it'll take much of the guessing out of brew day.

 

[Crusty]

No sarcasm intended!

Thanks for the response. With a lot of hobbies I start I tend to take things too quickly, get in over my head and then stop when things get a bit much, I'd like brewing to be a hobby that I really stick with, so I think taking it slow would be a good idea.

I'll check out Dr. Smurto's Golden Ale, Kit version, it will at least give me a chance to give my urn a go!

If it was me in your situation, I would totally forget the extract & steeping grains & totally forget doing anything with a K&K. You have all you need to get going really & Biab is not hard at all. My 10yr old girl helped me on my last brew & honestly, I think she could manage it with the exception of hauling the bag. If you don't have a mill, get your brew shop to crush your grain.

JSGA clone, 23lt batch, 1.048 @80% efficiency, no chill, 3L loss to trub, 30IBU - 4.7%.

2.6kg Pilsner malt
800g Munich I
800g Wheat
250g Caramunich I

Amarillo 8.2% - 15g@60min
Amarillo 8.2% - 10g@10min
KopperFloc - 2g@10min
Amarillo 8.2% - 10g@5min
Amarillo 8.2% - 10g@0min

Wyeast 1056 or 1272. Ferment@18deg.

Heat 32L of water to 68.6deg, turn off urn, add bag & crushed grain.
Temp should settle @66deg.
Insulate urn & leave alone for 90mins.
After 90mins, agitate mash & turn on urn & heat to mash out, 78deg. Continually pump the mash up & down with paint stirrer whilst adding heat.
Once at 78deg, turn off the urn & hoist the bag. Once bag is clear of wort, turn on the urn & heat to boiling. Squeeze the bag as much as you like.
Once boiling, add hop bag & add hops according to recipe.
When the boils done, place the lid back on & leave for 30mins.
After 30mins, place sanitized cube under urn tap & let it rip. Drain until it stops on it's own.
You should end up with 20Lt into your cube & around 3L trub @1.048 allowing 1L for cooling loss.
Download BrewMate which is great for Biab & no chill.

 

[bum]

Read his posts.

 

[Econwatson]

Thanks for the advice guys.

I think I will check out the BIAB demo on Saturday at G&G, and decide from that what I should buy at the store that day

To my untrained eye, the difference between the extract and AG process seems fairly marginal apart from the mash so I'm not sure if I'd really benefit from doing extracts first, I suppose there is slightly less to go wrong.

But, I think going to a demo is definitely my best option right now!

 

[tavas]

I agree with bum here. Get back to basics. When you are happy you have the basics down pat, I suggest trying one recipe for 3 or 4 batches in a row. With AG you need consistency. The very thing that makes AG so good is its downfall - there are too many variables to play with. Once you have your gear and technique sorted, then go nuts on changing everything? You have so much variety on mashing schedules, hopping, yeasts etc.

Getting one recipe consistent will be more challenging than you think.