Two Biab Qs -- Keggle And Voile

[BooneDocks]

Hello from the States. I will see be embarking on my first try at BIAB soon. I joined this forum for all the info and expertise on BIAB. I have done some searches and didn't directly find answers so let me ask a couple of questions.

I will be using a keggle (15.5 gal or 60 liters) and a 5.5 gal or 23 liter boiled wort batch. The inside diameter of the keggle is approximately 15 inches or 38 cm. The whole that was cut in the top of the keg is 12 inches or 30 cm. When I told my brewclub memeber I was going to try BIAB in a keggle, they were worried that I would be unable to pull the bag out of the keggle -- that with the grain pushing all the way out to the sides of the keggle and being heavy and soaked it wouldn't allow me to pull it through the smaller opening in the top. Is this a concern?

Second, I really had no idea what Swiss Voile is so I just bought a sheer white polyester curtain that said voile in the description. I intend to boil the bag by itself to boil off any dye before using it in a brew. Should I have any concern that it is not Swiss Voile?

Thanks!

 

[Spartan 117]

Hello from the States. I will see be embarking on my first try at BIAB soon. I joined this forum for all the info and expertise on BIAB. I have done some searches and didn't directly find answers so let me ask a couple of questions.

I will be using a keggle (15.5 gal or 60 liters) and a 5.5 gal or 23 liter boiled wort batch. The inside diameter of the keggle is approximately 15 inches or 38 cm. The whole that was cut in the top of the keg is 12 inches or 30 cm. When I told my brewclub memeber I was going to try BIAB in a keggle, they were worried that I would be unable to pull the bag out of the keggle -- that with the grain pushing all the way out to the sides of the keggle and being heavy and soaked it wouldn't allow me to pull it through the smaller opening in the top. Is this a concern?

Second, I really had no idea what Swiss Voile is so I just bought a sheer white polyester curtain that said voile in the description. I intend to boil the bag by itself to boil off any dye before using it in a brew. Should I have any concern that it is not Swiss Voile?

Thanks!

Here is some info on BIAB that you might find http://http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=22usefull. Also from my understanding of BIAB if you have to much grain in your bag you dont get as good efficency, if you're worried about the bag getting stuck due to excess grain then just have a ladle on stand by to scoop some out.

Not to sure about the swiss voile stuff.

Good luck

Aaron

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Your curtain sheer will be fine - You just want pure polyester, fine mesh... about the same fineness as a set of nylon stockings. Water should fall through with no resistance, anything courser than pure flour... not.

Your keggle will work, but you might find that when you pull the bag out, it squeezes out and things get a bit messy with wort running down the sides etc. People are using kegs set up like yours, and successfully - BUT - your life will be at its most simple with a straight sided pot, or with a keggle that has had the top completely cut off so that the opening is full width. Try your pot, it will certainly work, but be prepared to deal with a but of mess; and if its too much for you to handle - in the future you might want to consider a kettle modification.

Here is a link to the main BIAB thread, it can be found stuck to the very top of the AG section of this site. If you have a few hours and you really want to know all about BIAB, its potential failures, its good points and everything that anyone has ever tried, and whether it worked... read the whole 72 pages. You will understand BIAB at the end!! Or if not, then there are some great pictures and summaries of people's processes in the last half dozen pages of that thread.

Thirsty

 

[katzke]

Great to see another brewer from the USA being brave and trying BIAB.

My keg is cut out to just about 13.5 inches (it fits a canner lid). You may have a bit of trouble with 12 inches but it will not be that you can not get the bag out. First you need to sew the bag correctly. Cut a big circle and sew a tube to it rather then sewing it like a pillowcase. This will make the grain and bag shape like a water drop when you pull it out. Follow the directions and make the bag big enough so the keg can fit inside of it. I can fold the top of the bag over the rim of the keg and pull the drawstring tight. That way I can stir the mash and add ingredients just like you can in any mash tun. Also when you sew up the bag get the seams folded like the one on the outside leg on a pair of blue jeans. It will be much stronger and while one side may be a bit loose it leaves no place for grain and stuff to get trapped so clean up is as easy as a quick rinse.

When you pull the bag lift it slow the first couple of times. If you have a tight fit and you pull too fast you will get wort up over the rim of the keg and it will have no place to go other then all over the burner and floor (ask me how I know). If you find the bag is a tight fit then use something to hang it and give it a spin while holding on to the top of the bag. This will not only help drain the bag but make it smaller so you can get it out.

Make sure the cut edge of the keg does not have any sharp spots. If in doubt, very carefully run your fingers around the inside of the cut. You can use a file and good wet/dry sandpaper to polish up the edges if needed. Make sure you are very careful doing this. Depending on how the top was cut out it can be deadly sharp.

I have read of all kinds of contraptions to hang the bag. The bag does not weight much even when full of wet grain. For a normal 5 gallon batch of beer the bag will weight 25 pounds more or less wet. We have a nylon cord sewn in the top of the bag for a drawstring. When it is pulled tight it is long and strong enough to lift and hang the bag. I have a big old pot that I use as a stand for the burner. I stuff a long 2x2 in the handle and hang the bag from that with a carpenters spring clamp. I can post a picture if you need.

I found that running the grain through the store mill 3 times works well for me. I get a bit of dust but not a problem with BIAB.

Last bit of advice. Beware of advice on BIAB from traditional brewers. They just do not understand it and most likely they will give bad advice. General brewing advice will work for BIAB. Follow the guide on BIAB and enjoy the simplicity of the brewing method.

If you have any other questions just ask.

 

[altone]

Second, I really had no idea what Swiss Voile is so I just bought a sheer white polyester curtain that said voile in the description. I intend to boil the bag by itself to boil off any dye before using it in a brew. Should I have any concern that it is not Swiss Voile?

Your curtain sheer will be fine - You just want pure polyester, fine mesh... about the same fineness as a set of nylon stockings. Water should fall through with no resistance, anything courser than pure flour... not.

Your keggle will work, but you might find that when you pull the bag out, it squeezes out and things get a bit messy with wort running down the sides etc. People are using kegs set up like yours, ....
Thirsty

You know, I was going to try a BIAB brew to see if I could reduce time and space requirements over my current setup but couldn't find info on exactly what the "swiss voile" should be.
Now I realise I had the bag material hanging up in the lounge room all along

With a full grain load and a smaller hole in the top of your keggle, I'd suspect a bit of persuasion might be needed to get the bag out, and yes a bit messy like Thirsty says.

Now, I'm off to Spotlight to get myself material for a bag to try a small BIAB run next weekend.
If it works for me, I can do the whole brew process in the laundry - much more comfortable than fighting over the kitchen or working out in the cold workshop.


Let us know how it turns out BooneDocks

 

[Thirsty Boy]

You know, I was going to try a BIAB brew to see if I could reduce time and space requirements over my current setup but couldn't find info on exactly what the "swiss voile" should be.
Now I realise I had the bag material hanging up in the lounge room all along

With a full grain load and a smaller hole in the top of your keggle, I'd suspect a bit of persuasion might be needed to get the bag out, and yes a bit messy like Thirsty says.

Now, I'm off to Spotlight to get myself material for a bag to try a small BIAB run next weekend.
If it works for me, I can do the whole brew process in the laundry - much more comfortable than fighting over the kitchen or working out in the cold workshop.


Let us know how it turns out BooneDocks

Just remember, when we say curtain sheer, we mean sheer -- think chiffon, see through clothes, stockings etc etc -- not lace. Flyscreen grade mesh ... way to coarse. f you have or have seen a hopbag... about that level of fineness.

I'd hate to see someone sew up a BIAB bag out of the mesh curtain we used to have in our house.

Boddington - for you in Melbourne it should be easy The spotlight codes for the material in question...



TB

 

[BooneDocks]

Thanks for the advice!

My bag material is on the order of stockings.

I had it sewed yesterday before I read about the teardrop shape so was sewn as a pillow case. It is plenty large for the whole keg to fit inside with the drawstring pulled.

I checked the lip of my keggle opening and it is extremely smooth except for one little nick, which I will sand out.

I think I have a good plan for the sky hook and I will suspend the bag inside the kettle for draining and will give it a spin/squeeze. ANY THOUGHTS ON HOW LONG TO SUSPEND IT FOR DRAINING? I intend to be firing the brew during this time.

Hoping to be ready to brew next Sunday.

 

[Scruffy]

drain until all the sugary goodness is out and in your boil pot - buy yourself a pair of rubber gardening gloves, or a couple of largish pan lids - the stuff in the bag will remain hot for a while... I'm not the worlds best seamstress, i just cut a circle in my voile to cover the pot, sides and a bit left over - bought some grommets from a well known Aussie Hardware warehouse, threaded some poly rope through and used two broom handles and some step ladders/brick walls/dining chairs to suspend the bag... my last Chimay style did bend the poles slightly (big grain bill), but it held... spin the bag, and squeeze until the contents are dryish then chuck it and start boiling... more importantly - have fun! good luck...

 

[katzke]

I had it sewed yesterday before I read about the teardrop shape so was sewn as a pillow case. It is plenty large for the whole keg to fit inside with the drawstring pulled.

I think I have a good plan for the sky hook and I will suspend the bag inside the kettle for draining and will give it a spin/squeeze. ANY THOUGHTS ON HOW LONG TO SUSPEND IT FOR DRAINING? I intend to be firing the brew during this time.

Hoping to be ready to brew next Sunday.

As Scruffy said not a big deal to cut a circle and put it in the bottom of your bag. No big loss if you have to take the seam out of the bottom. Leave the seam in the side as you already have a tube. It may work for you as is but I like my bag and have seen pictures of the pillowcase design and I think you may have some continuing trouble. I would leave it for the first brew unless you have time to redo it. One thing you can do to is fill the bag with your grain and give it a dry test.

You can hang the bag for as long as you want, with in reason of course. I used to pull mine with the spin/squeeze method and then let it drain in a second pot (you can use a clean bucket). The last brew I just let it hang while adding heat to start the boil. With a few good spin/squeezes it did not have enough wort left after leaving it in the bucket to make any real difference. So how long to leave it hang? Hang it till most of the wort runs out, then give it a good spin/squeeze, and at that time you may still be getting a drip or 2. I guess what I am trying to say is leave it in till it stops running or the wort starts to boil.

And dont forget to raise the wort to mash out (170F) before pulling the bag. With a hook you can lift the bag just far enough to get it off the bottom of the pot. That is if you have not found a cake rack to put in the bottom of the pot while you mash. Then you should be able to just stir as you add the heat.

Have fun next weekend and dont panic if it does not go textbook. That is all part of the fun of brewing.

 

[BooneDocks]

SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed -- and I assume that is an Aussie term too) had to cajole the Mother of SWMBO to sew the bag and it is highly unlikey a re-sew will happen this week.

I know I want to let all sugars drain, just think it may be difficult to see the drainage looking down thru the keggle hole.

But I really like that idea of at least a dry test. Will definitely give that one a go..

 

[katzke]

I know I want to let all sugars drain, just think it may be difficult to see the drainage looking down thru the keggle hole.

Draining is no big deal and is harder to describe then to do it.

I think you will know what is what when you give the bag a few twists. I twist it real tight and have not had any hint of a blow out yet. You do not even need gloves. Just hang on to the top of the bag and use a spoon or whatever to twist the bag. It will take quite a few twists to get it all tight depending on how long the bag is. You are basically wringing it out with the grain still inside.

If in doubt get a big bowl or what ever you have that the bag of wet grain will fit in and let it drip out into that. You can then add what little wort there is back into the boiling kettle.

 

[argon]

I'm not the worlds best seamstress, i just cut a circle in my voile to cover the pot, sides and a bit left over - bought some grommets from a well known Aussie Hardware warehouse, threaded some poly rope through...

As a non-seamstress myself and not really keen on getting Mum to sew something up for me (just to skip the whole, "you spend too much time brewing beer" lecture) this is a really good alternative. I've detailed some sailmaking before, so shouldn't be too hard to put something together that would work with a nice celing mounted stainless pulley and wall mounted cleat for tie-off. 10 or 12mm Nylon Rope should be stronger too than just a draw string.

I can see myself putting this together quite easily. No seems and easy to clean.

 

[katzke]

As a non-seamstress myself and not really keen on getting Mum to sew something up for me (just to skip the whole, "you spend too much time brewing beer" lecture) this is a really good alternative. I've detailed some sailmaking before, so shouldn't be too hard to put something together that would work with a nice celing mounted stainless pulley and wall mounted cleat for tie-off. 10 or 12mm Nylon Rope should be stronger too than just a draw string.

I can see myself putting this together quite easily. No seems and easy to clean.

Nice but overkill. Kind of like hopping in the Ferrari to get to the corner store for a 6-pack when you could walk the half block.

Pulleys are a nice convenience but not needed to lift the bag on a normal brew. Double batches maybe. All you Block & Tackle BIABers are forcing me to take a picture my next brew just to show how little it takes to hang a bag of wet grain.

Not saying you are wrong or anything but trying to let new brewers know they do not need to go all out and remodel the house to strengthen the ceiling and add all kinds of hardware to be able to BIAB. Remember the roots of BIAB. It was supposed to be a simple one pot method of brewing with all grain.

 

[PistolPatch]

I haven't had time to read this thread thoroughly but I really like the simplicity of the post directly above - great post Tom! A lot of other great posts there I see at a glance.

If I were doing BIAB for the first few times and doing single batches, I would consider heavy duty rubber gloves way before a pulley.

We often complicate things (pulleys) or fail to spend a dollar on something simple (rubber gloves).

BOONE DOCKS - Great to see you have come across BIAB! One question of yours I saw was, "How long should I suspend the bag for?" Here is my answer for your first few brews...

Buy some heavy duty gloves and lift the bag at the end of your mash, twirl it a few times to squeeze the liquid out. Just twirl it as much as you would when transferring wet clothes from one tub to another without wanting to drip too much.

Then just dump your bag and forget it.

You will get a bit less than 75% mash efficiency doing this and this is great.

When you have a pulley system and can do a mash-out, you will get a bit over 80% mash efficiency but in reality this only means a litre or two of beer or a few gravity points so don't get hung up on getting everything perfect to start with.

Finding a good recipe is the first thing to concentrate on.

Gotta go but best of luck,
Pat

 

[drtomc]

Not saying you are wrong or anything but trying to let new brewers know they do not need to go all out and remodel the house to strengthen the ceiling and add all kinds of hardware to be able to BIAB. Remember the roots of BIAB. It was supposed to be a simple one pot method of brewing with all grain.

I completely agree with your point, but I also observe that having a pulley with a cleat or tie-off of some sort is quite useful if you want to allow the bag to drain over the pot while the wort comes to the boil. It makes squeezing easier (if you're a squeezle), frees you up to attend to other things.

Not essential, but useful. It depends a bit on why you BIAB - I do because I don't have space for a 3 vessel system, not because I want to be a brewing ascetic and be completely free of brewing bling.

T.

 

[Bribie G]

As a non-seamstress myself and not really keen on getting Mum to sew something up for me (just to skip the whole, "you spend too much time brewing beer" lecture) this is a really good alternative. I've detailed some sailmaking before, so shouldn't be too hard to put something together that would work with a nice celing mounted stainless pulley and wall mounted cleat for tie-off. 10 or 12mm Nylon Rope should be stronger too than just a draw string.

I can see myself putting this together quite easily. No seems and easy to clean.

Brilliant suggestion, I have been having to tie a bowline knot single handed while hanging onto the bag with my other aching hand .... (rabbit comes out of the hole, rabbit goes round the tree, rabbit goes back down the hole, oh f***k ) Off to the hardware store this afternoon. I'm writing an article on BIAB using an electric Urn so I'll pinch your idea shamelessly :icon_cheers:

 

[Katherine]

No seems and easy to clean.

If it is sewn by machine and people are having problem with the seams. Just put the bag in inside out. :icon_cheers:

 

[Scruffy]

We often complicate things...

Me, never... :blink:

 

[Renegade]

threaded some poly rope through and used two broom handles and some step ladders/brick walls/dining chairs to suspend the bag... my last Chimay style did bend the poles slightly (big grain bill), but it held... spin the bag, and squeeze until the contents are dryish then chuck it and start boiling... more importantly - have fun! good luck...

Brilliant ! I'm onto this one for sure. (only do a couple of kilo's so no issues of being too heavy). Cheers for sharing your ghetto pully system setup.

 

[Renegade]

Then just dump your bag and forget it.

I just started BIAB (for partials) and while it's easier than the way I was mashing & sparging before (don't ask!), I found it REALLY HARD to just leave the first-dunk grain without running some hot water through it again - and seeing that the resultant liqor was nice and dark. Seems a waste to not extract the extra.