Turning A Fermenter Into A Mash Tun

[PistolPatch]

Had another day today where I could spend some time on brewing. I've just come up with a way (I think) of being able to use a fermenter as a mash tun as well which may save some others some time and money.

Firstly I bought the 1m Easy Hooker Connector SS Braid from Bunnings for $9.80. After removing the inner hose, I bent one end over and covered it with a little plastic hose to prevent scratching of the fermenter from the fine wires. With the other end, I pushed it into another bit of plastic pipe and then used the plastic pipe and a hose clamp to connect it to a sediment trap. Here's a pic...



Secondly I just pushed the sediment trap into the hole at the base of the fermenter...



And lastly just for the hell of it, here's a pic of some recent modifications to my fermenter lid. The black tube will be replaced with SS for a temp probe which can be used for both mash and ferment. The mini immersion chiller, well that's another story!



I'm going to improve the tap connection at the bottom as I imagine it would get knocked out with a mash paddle (bought a nylon paint stirrer for this) so any ideas there would be great.

And a final question for you, if I threw my grain in first and then pumped mash water in through the bottom of the fermenter (i.e. through the tap,) would that prevent doughballs? Could I do the same with sparge water? Just would like an answer on that before I play with another idea.

Thanks PP

EDIT: That's the way the hose naturally sits. Any major probs there do you reckon? Not chasing perfection - just enough to get under way.

 

[PostModern]

Lay out the braided hose further away from the edges to avoid channeling down the side during lauter/sparging. A top idea.

Obviously, you will never return the vessel to fermenting duties once it's been a mashtun?

 

[PistolPatch]

Many thanks Post. I spose I'll try and source some stainless steel wire or something so I can make the braid sit where I want it. I should have remembered from all my reading to steer clear of the sides - whoops!

Now, you're second comment has really worried me! Please, break it to me gently! I was so excited - why can't I use it as a fermenter and mash tun? What have I missed? Please tell me it's something that I can resolve - LOL!

Cheers PM,
PP

EDIT: Just realised the first post was missing a picture. Have added it now.

 

[PostModern]

Unboiled wort/mash is a great source of bacterial contamination. Maybe a hot caustic blast would be enough?

 

[Ross]

PP,

A good sanitise between mashing & fermentation should be fine - have you made a jacket for it to help keep the temp stable while mashing?

cheers Ross

 

[PistolPatch]

Thanks Post and Ross. I have a jacket (just a foam camping mat) but am also going to experiment with putting it in that huge esky which I'll pull down off my fridge. This experimenting is nearly as much fun as brewing!

 

[warrenlw63]

Unboiled wort/mash is a great source of bacterial contamination. Maybe a hot caustic blast would be enough?

[post="120567"][/post]​

PM.

I'm inclined to think advocating the use of caustic to anybody who most probably hasn't had any experience with it before probably isn't a good idea. h34r:

The consequences of it's mishandling could outweigh the detriment of a batch of infected beer without a doubt. :excl:

Warren -

 

[PostModern]

Er, yes. Safety first, of course. Hot caustic can remove skin, cause blindness, anosmia etc.

I was just making the point that in my brewery boiled wort stays the hell away from everything on the other side of the kettle.

 

[Darren]

PP,
I think you grain will scratch the hell out of the tun making it next to useless as a fermenter. I reckon you will be better off buying another container to be used as a fermenter.

cheers
Darren

 

[Ross]

PP,
I think you grain will scratch the hell out of the tun making it next to useless as a fermenter. I reckon you will be better off buying another container to be used as a fermenter.

cheers
Darren

[post="120606"][/post]​

Another container rather defeats the space saving objective, that this is all about...

On a more constructive note - If this turns out to be the case, it's simply a matter of using a plastic bag liner for the fermenter, which you dispose of after each batch - A method commonly used by those that don't have the time or inclination to sanitise their fermenter...

cheers Ross

 

[PistolPatch]

Good point Darren. Well solved Ross! Thanks so much for all the comments.

UPDATE ON FERMASHER(!) PERFORMANCE

1. Temperature Loss in Esky (1.6 Degrees in 60 Mins) - To simulate a mash I brought 16 litres of water to 70 degrees and put this into fermenter. This then went in the esky which I pre-heated to 68 degrees with a few jugs of boiling water (thanks for the tip MHB). Once in the esky, initial temperature was 67.7. Stayed pretty constant for first 25 minutes and then dropped to 66.3 in 1 hour.

2. Flow Rate (1.7lt Per Min): With plain water the Fermasher drained 5lts in 3 minutes.

3. Wastage (750ml): After tilting the fermasher with a few bungs, 750ml was undrainable as it were.

Many thanks again,
PP

 

[Jazzafish]

PP,

I'm sure it will work just fine. Maybe a figure 8 in the hose, clamping both ends to the tap? However, I get around 70 to 80% efficiencies without a figure 8, just run it straight across in a rectangular esky.

As the others said a good cleaning and sanitation will be needed. But hey, that goes with everything. You may get a few scratches... At the end of the day a fermenter is just a clean bucket. Scratched or not.

The bag will be a fine solution to scratches. Make sure it is a thick plastic. However, if you can find space for another fermenter, I'm sure it can be helpful and time saving. When not fermenting or acting as a HLT, my fermenters are storage buckets!

By the way, most of what you mention is new to alot of members here. I guess a new thing is often rejected without much thought... old dogs, new tricks. Give it a go, the proof is in the pudding.

 

[PistolPatch]

Very much appreciated Jazza. I just had a muck around with the figure 8 you suggested and that's going to work very nicely. Thank you! (To help avoid the scratches, apart from the bag idea I'm also going to cut a silicone oven mat out and put it under the braid so paddling won't be as much of an issue.)

I hope it does work out because it would make it a little easier for those wanting to have a bash at AG to try it out cheaply. The space thing for me is the biggest hassle at the moment and this is why I'm coming up with so many mad ideas. It's cost a little in experimentation but as I said, hopefully some of this will help a few others and then they will buy me a lot of drinks!

Cheers Jazza,
PP

 

[warrenlw63]

PP

I know your ideas are borne out of convenience and the utilization of items at hand. I'd say that although what you're doing isn't a perfect world the fermenter should be OK to double as a mashtun. As long as you stir the mash with a plastic or wooden implement you should be OK. That said it isn't my cup of tea.

The bacterial risk from the mash in the fermenter would most probably be minimal (at a guess). The mash sits around 70 degrees which is enough to minimize bugs over the period of an hour or more. Just make sure you clean it thoroughly and carefully after emptying the grains. h34r:

Warren -

 

[MHD]

to answer one of your first questions: Letting water in through the tap underneath is a common technique, known as underletting and many swear by it as a way of reducing doughballs...

I

 

[PistolPatch]

Warren - thanks again. I've still got a few weeks to go before first AG so I'll think on ways of reducing the bacterial risk as best as I can. If I could find a bucket small enough to fit in the esky, then I'd use this instead and just ditch my current "general" bucket which is too big. On reflection, maybe I should definitely do this. The $10 and ten minutes have already been spent and could easily be applied to a bucket. In hindsight, I thought up the fermenter idea after going to Bunnings and 3 plastic places last week with no joy on finding something the right size.

MHD, thanks mate. I was beginning to wonder if that was another stupid question of mine! I won't use 'underletting' here in the apartment but will definitely be thinking on this for when I move out of here and am able to make a 'real' brewery!

Cheers
PP

 

[BrissyBrew]

PistolPatch

Great idea for unit brewing (I too live in a unit but have a garage, it was something I negotiated with SWMBO). I would try bag liners from brew on premises places they use them all the time (never been to one though) I would assume they sell them as they sell yeast etc.

 

[BeerMat]

PistolPatch

I had the same idea a little while ago. I converted a 15 litre fermenter into a mini mash tun by making a manifold out of PVC pipe with slots cut into it, elbow joints plus some food grade hose to connected it to the tap. The whole thing is insulated with some dense foam and towels. Also, to keep it from losing too much heat, I sit the thing on a brewing heat pad - same thing I use to keep the fermenter warm when brewing ales in the middle of winter.

I can fit approx. 4kgs of grain which is enough for an 18 - 20 litre brew. What limits my capacity is the size of my boiler - a 20l stock pot which can hold approx 15l during the boil. I don't have space for anything bigger at the moment so I often make the wort for the boil at a higher gravity then water it down before pitching the yeast. This also does away for an intercooler as I dump 3 or 4 kgs of (sterile) ice into the wort after the boil to cool the wort and help make up the extra volume.

To get a high gravity wort, I reduce the amount of sparge water which results in a poor utilisation of the grain (65 - 70%) and the need more bittering hops. The increased cost of doing things this way is only a dollar or two and doesn't worry me.

 

[sintax69]

Seeing that you are brewing outside the square we all brew in
Why dont you mash in a bag either sow 2 of those partial grain bags together (ESB sell them or use muslem matieral) to make a big bag or a plasic bag with a hole for the braid to go thru (i would go the grain bag more long term and more protection and you would get better filtering) then just put the grain in the bag and mash away
This would have the advantage of on brew day you could just pull out the bag dump it out of the fermenter then rinse out the fermenter do a quick sanitizer and by the end of your boild its ready to go in fermenter mode

 

[scott]

PP, I've been AG brewing (6th brew in fermenter), very similar to Beermat.

I was concerned at the amount of gear every one has and I do not have the room also have other spending priorities (dive gear also needs some capital investment).

Other than a basic brew kit from the HBS I have only brought a 21ltr S/S stock pot. This has not been modidifed with any taps as it is used for other purposes such as boiling crays & crabs.

Boil mash & sparge water in S/S pot in the kitchen on the stove with good wok burner. Mash in 30L esky (already owned) no modification.

I use the fermenter for sparging. Less than ten bucks worth of tubing and fittings to make a manifold which is connected to the tap via a drilled out sediment trap.

Pour mash into the modified fermenter add sparge water mix well, let grain bed settle then start draing off slowly into pot, using the no sparge method as detailed here on this site. Have achieved apparently about 70% efficiency.

I boil on the BBQ. Then cool overnight by placing pot into tub of water. Add ice packs and frozen water bottles to help. In the morning tip into fermentor. Hops are filtered with some muslin cloth in a strainer although I will make some hop bags shortly to improve this and a siphoning manifold.

I use the fermenter after a good wash with boiling water and sanitiser. Put the fermenter into a water tub to keep the temp constant at about 20 degrees for fermentation.

Simple and cheap whilst I get the hang of things. The results so far are better than the kits and should improve as my experience improves.

Probably not as good as the results that are being achieved by others with better set ups, but so far, better than a kit.