Turn Up The Heat

[warrenlw63]

Another point to add.

Not sure about Chiller's pipe. However I know you can't use 13mm tubing. I went to Gameco yesterday with my flared 13mm (OD??) gas pipe and they didn't have a reducer big enough to match the compression fittings.

Not sure if Chiller can comment here but I think that his pipe and compression fittings might be a smaller diameter.

So if you're going to attempt it, may pay to use narrower gas pipe. I'm picking if Gameco don't have the correct fittings there's a fair chance nobody will.

I was hoping to get away with existing pipe I mentioned earlier. Looks like it's back to the drawing board. In other words purchasing a flaring tool. <_<

BTW Braided hoses aren't the total answer either, albeit they're a better option than the standard hose. The chap at Gameco told me that the braid is all well and good and heatproof. However problem lies in the fact that there's no way of knowing if the hose underneath the braid is suspect.

Sobering thought. :unsure:

Warren -

 

[Justin]

Looks like chiller is using about 3/8" or maybe 1/4" copper pipe Warren. Could be smaller but I'd guarantee that you'd be able to get the right fittings to match with 1/4" copper pipe-I'd assume you'd get enough flow with 1/4".

Hope it helps.

FWIW 13mm is bloody big pipe for one single gas burner. 13mm might also put more stress on that tap/valve and you may end up breaking it, use 1/4" as it will give you more flex in the system thus taking the pressure off that valve.

Not really surprised that you couldn't find a step down compression/flare fitting to suit, I know I've been through all the fittings stuff/problems with a number of projects. Once you find a good hose and fittings place it is absolute bliss. Walk in with a problem, walk out with a solution-vs bunnings, walk in with a problem, walk out with half a dozen mismatched fittings all stuck together that "may" do the job of one fitting from a proper place.

Cheers, Justin

 

[warrenlw63]

G'day and cheers Justin, how's things?

Thanks for the heads-up. As usual your info is right on the money. :super:

Might have to have a look into a smaller pipe and fittings.

Back to Gameco I go.

Warren -

 

[TidalPete]

And there's the rub. Good quality flaring tools are quite expensive.

Don't even be tempted by the cheaper ones. They're not worth the effort. Been there, done that. They produce sub-standard flares.

One of these days I'm going to get myself a good one.

Warren -

Good advice from Warren. if only I was still working & able to call in at the "Plumbers Shop" I am currently on the lookout for a sympathetic gas fitter

:beer:

 

[Brizbrew]

So, basically the general theme is you need a flaring tool, or use of one and 1/4 inch copper pipe?
I would be willing to pay a few bob for the job to be done it is peace of mind that I am not going to singe my eyebrows or worse still singe my beer that I am after. <_<

 

[Brizbrew]

Just read the whole thread again because I am really quite worried about the possibility of a gas line popping due to the extreme heat given off by the NASA.
It seems that some, or most people are using a "gas fuse" to cut off in the case of a leak or some other disaster, do these things work and would one null the need for a copper stand off?
I just want to brew good beer but want to do it safely, I dont want to burn my house down in the process. :huh:

 

[Bigfella]

I finally decided it was time to get my nasa burner that I bought from Rays Outdoors, Working.
It has been sitting in the corner of the garage as I can't get a good flame on it. So I decided to go to Gamco and pick up a new reg. But The guy there told me that there are a few different pressure ratings on his high pressure regs and it would be dangerous to give me the wrong one
I was told there should be a rating on the burner but I can' find one anywhere on it. Can any of you find a rating on there burner or reg. so I know what to go for.
Thanks

 

[Jazman]

the braided hose is good thats what i use with my nasa

[post="67084"][/post]​

Jasman,
Is your braided hose similar to the one that Brisbrew got from Grain & Grape? :unsure:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/downunder73/hpreg.jpg

:beer:

[post="67087"][/post]​

sorry pete that aint it as it has stainless braiding on the outside of the rubber hose

 

[warrenlw63]

I was told there should be a rating on the burner but I can' find one anywhere on it. Can any of you find a rating on there burner or reg. so I know what to go for.
Thanks

[post="67234"][/post]​

Bigfella,

The Grain and Grape ones come with a Shields HPHK1800A High pressure POL x 1/4" 1800mm 0-44Psi.

Also you can order just the regulator and hose from G&G for about $60 IIRC.

Warren -

 

[TidalPete]

sorry pete that aint it as it has stainless braiding on the outside of the rubber hose

[post="67240"][/post]​

I was afraid you'd say that jazman. I thought that the braided hoses had ss on the outside. looks like Grain & Grape may be trying to increase their profit margins here. The regulator (& the hose?) are not the same as the ones that Chiller's pics showed on page one. :unsure:

:beer:

Edit (sort of) --- I have just been to collect my stand-off from a gas fitter. He says that the hose & regulator should be ok to use with the NASA. I will know on Monday when I blast off. h34r:

 

[warrenlw63]

Don't worry Pete,

Can't totally vouch for the hose. However the regulators are more than adequate. Just because they're candy-apple red instead of industrial grey doesn't make them any less capable. My opinion is they're more than built for the job.

I'm back to the drawing board with the hose. I've got an idea. What I'm going to do is cut a 15cm length of 19mm copper tubing and make a sleeve for the top of the hose. Doesn't slip over automatically. Brass end of hose restricts this.

What I will do is cut a vertical slot up the length of the copper tube, bend it open slightly, put it over the top of the hose and lightly crimp it shut. I'll see how it works. Should protect the first 15cm (vital part) of the hose from burner heat. To stop the tube slipping down I'll put a hose clamp lightly on the gas hose.

If it looks (and works) :unsure: the goods I'll post a pic over the weekend.

More than one way to skin a hose.

Warren -

 

[Borret]

Warren,

I would be concerned that sheathing it with copper would actually conduct the heat better to the tube particularly if it's in direct contact with it

Borret.

 

[warrenlw63]

looks like Grain & Grape may be trying to increase their profit margins here.

[post="67307"][/post]​

Also Pete I seriously doubt that Grain and Grape are trying to increase their profit margins. They're probably supplying what they see as adequate for the job. The ones from Globe in Sth Oz didn't come with braided hoses either unless you paid extra. (Some could verify here).

Grain and Grape's prices IMO are the lowest HB prices I've seen in the country and have always been receptive to brewer's needs.

No association etc. Just a long-term, satisfied customer who's always had nothing but good service and advice from them.

Warren -

 

[warrenlw63]

Warren,

I would be concerned that sheathing it with copper would actually conduct the heat better to the tube particularly if it's in direct contact with it

Borret.

[post="67311"][/post]​

I had that thought Borret. In hindsight I think you may be right.

Thanks for the fair warning. Think I'll heed it.

Plan B. Build a tin-plate shield in front of the burner.

Warren -

 

[TidalPete]

Plan B. Build a tin-plate shield in front of the burner.

Warren -

[post="67314"][/post]​

A stand-off pipe, combined with your your angle iron cradle (that I have yet to make up) should give you enough piece of mind Warren. If your cradle helps to contain the heat & flames that curl around the bottom of your setup & the stand-off places your hose well away from the heat, then all should be ok. Shouldn't it? :blink: The stand-off that I just got sets the hose 600mm away from the air intake knob & was only $18. Also, perhaps I was a little hard on G&G in my earlier post? :unsure:

:beer:

 

[Brizbrew]

I think I will end up doing something similar. I have been giving this quite a bit of thought and will probably end up using a cradle and heat shield combo along with a gas fuse to rule out any leaks.
What will you guys be using for your shield and will you use a fuse?

Warren I would not do the copper over the hose thing, I think that could be a V bad idea, don't want to see a fellow brewer go up in smoke.

 

[redbeard]

this is slightly off topic, but connected. ive sent 3 emails to g&g from 2 diff email addrs (home & work) requesting info, but no reply for almost a week. other hb stores with websites are much more responsive. is this normal for g&g ?

as to the copper gas extension; how hot is it at the burner connection compared to the gas hose ? if the burner is made of iron, will a shield deflect that much extra heat ? perhaps chiller / brizbrew can enlighten us with 1st hand experience ?

thanks

 

[chiller]

this is slightly off topic, but connected. ive sent 3 emails to g&g from 2 diff email addrs (home & work) requesting info, but no reply for almost a week. other hb stores with websites are much more responsive. is this normal for g&g ?

as to the copper gas extension; how hot is it at the burner connection compared to the gas hose ? if the burner is made of iron, will a shield deflect that much extra heat ? perhaps chiller / brizbrew can enlighten us with 1st hand experience ?

thanks

[post="67360"][/post]​

Physical heat at the gas tap on the burner is quite high. I opted for the copper standoffs I had made for the total safety I wanted.

My setup is permanantly "wired" so doesn't get disconnected other than to change gas bottles.

On my heated Mash tun I have a SS braided [rubber] centre hose [I didn't have time on the weekend to get a copper one]. This seems to pose no problems for the short periods of time it is ignited.

The HLT and Kettle have copper as the flame is running at maximum for, in the case of the HLT 15 - 20 sometimes.

My theory is you cannot be too safe with high pressure gas.


Steve

 

[redbeard]

this is slightly off topic, but connected. ive sent 3 emails to g&g from 2 diff email addrs (home & work) requesting info, but no reply for almost a week. other hb stores with websites are much more responsive. is this normal for g&g ?

[post="67360"][/post]​

just to close this off, g&g rang my work number the following mon & answered my questions. better late than never i guess.

 

[warrenlw63]

Finally got the standoff pipe finished. :beer:

I managed to get it together with 1/2 inch pipe even though I had my doubts. Contrary to what the chap at Gameco said you "can" get fittings if you look hard enough.

As it turned out I already had some of the bits chucked in a box in the garage. By all accounts some of these fittings are air-hose fittings from what I've been told. I wrapped "all" the threads thoroughly with yellow gas tape. Should be OK it's rated to 200 degrees celcius.

I thoroughly leak tested the joints by spraying them with soapy water. Wasn't a walk in the park first up. It leaked where the brass union joined the burner valve. Took it off and tightened it all up again. Sprayed the joints and all seems well. Lit the burner and (probably foolishly) lit the joints with a gas match to check for further leaks. I've been told that this is a good way to assure yourself there's no leaks. <_<

Here's some closeup shots for anybody who wants to do the same thing. You'll need a flaring tool and some other bits. Sorry I don't know the name of them. You'll have to take a pic to the store.

Bunnings won't have all these bits. You need a place that specialises in compressed air fittings etc.

Warren -